Eviction in Alberta question

[spetch]

Still searching the internet for a more solid answer but I thought I would put this out there while I keep searching.

Can the legal owner of a house evict a tenant (who did not sign a lease, had more of a verbal agreement, and which they are failing to follow through with for over a year) right away or do they have to go through the 14 day process?

It looks like things are different from province to province so apply the law to AB. Any links would also be helpful.

Thanks

[OMG!WTF!]

Verbal lease agreements are the same as written ones. If you pay to live in someone's property it's an agreement that falls under the RTA. So all the normal stuff you've been reading online would apply. But it sounds like the person hasn't paid for a year? That's a bit confusing. If it's a cohabitation thing some other domestic laws might apply. But someone living in a property for free for over a year is pretty weird. You'd need to give some more info for a proper answer.

[spetch]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Verbal lease agreements are the same as written ones. If you pay to live in someone's property it's an agreement that falls under the RTA. So all the normal stuff you've been reading online would apply. But it sounds like the person hasn't paid for a year? That's a bit confusing. If it's a cohabitation thing some other domestic laws might apply. But someone living in a property for free for over a year is pretty weird. You'd need to give some more info for a proper answer.

Thought I might have to give more info, here we go:


My sister was going through a divorce and was moving back home. They had an agreement of who gets what and her ex had her sign something saying she couldnt come after his new home (moving for his job). She did not want to get him to sign the same thing (exact reasons unknown).

While looking for a new place it was suggested she build a new home for the same if not cheaper than the places that were currently on the market. She went through with that but because she had no finances free from the divorce yet, my parents would take on the new home mortgage. She had agreed to pay my parents a montly rent that they would take off the price of the home when her divorce money was finalized and free for her use.

Fast forward some months later and quite frankly she goes off the deep end. As a family we try and get help mental health help and that makes things worse. She denouces us, quits her job and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't really matter in this case. Obviously at this time as well she quits her payments as well. My parents not wanting their grandchildren (which they are not allowed to see or talk to) to live on the streets let her stay in the house. Things get worse when they try for court ordered visits with the grandkids (she is held in contempt numerous times) and they finally decide they can no longer afford to keep paying the mortgage. They want to retire and the added expense of a house they dont live in becoming too much of a burden.

They have potential people who may want to buy the house, but they need to evict her first. Things are kinda in a grey area to me being that there is no written lease, family, they let her get away with no payment for so long (over a year now). I was hoping that they could get around the 14 day eviction notice but it doesnt seem like it. They are willing to let her stay and pay rent, but there is very little chance of her paying as she has no money, expect for what her grandma gives her.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wait so she's having mental problems, and she's a family member? Is there a plan for her if the eviction notice is given? Or is it off to the streets for her?

As it is, if you there is a actual threat to physically harm the landlord, or there is damage done to the property, then you can move to a 24 hour notice of eviction. I believe if you do the 24 hour eviction notice, and the tenant refuses to leave by the date on the notice then you have to get a court order to terminate the residency.

Is this like an intervention by the way, where your telling her to get help or get out? Or is it a get out no matter what?

[photon]

Speaking directly to the tenant issue...

That there's no written lease as mentioned doesn't really matter, if she paid rent and the owners accepted it the relationship falls under the RTA.

How long she hasn't paid rent doesn't really factor into the initial steps, which going by the typical route is posting a 14 day notice. If they don't pay within 14 days, then they can't just force them out, they have to go to court or the mediation service to get a judgment. Then they can hire a bailiff to have the person removed. Though usually tenants are given lots of opportunities, I've seen it take more than a year to evict a tenant that pays a bit here and there, promises to do such and such, etc. EDIT: As CC pointed out there's a different process if there's been violence to the landlord or significant damage to the property.

The fact that its the familial relationship it is though, I have no idea what kind of wrench that would throw into things, if it would make it easier or harder to get a judgment, and if they'd take the non-payment history into account.. they might just as easily take the acceptance of non-payment history equally into account. No idea.

Anyway I've spoken with these guys a number of times and used them once for a much more minor situation, and they're always seemed knowledgeable and give a realistic view of what the options are and how the courts would likely react.

http://www.fosterco911.com/

EDIT: Involving a 3rd party might also make it easier for everyone, make it seem a bit less personal maybe?

[spetch]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wait so she's having mental problems, and she's a family member? Is there a plan for her if the eviction notice is given? Or is it off to the streets for her?

As it is, if you there is a actual threat to physically harm the landlord, or there is damage done to the property, then you can move to a 24 hour notice of eviction. I believe if you do the 24 hour eviction notice, and the tenant refuses to leave by the date on the notice then you have to get a court order to terminate the residency.

Is this like an intervention by the way, where your telling her to get help or get out? Or is it a get out no matter what?

Yes when we tried to get her help, she was about to become diagnosed with having Borderline Personality Disorder. She was never officially diagnosed but due to the court battles we seen that the one Dr put that it there notes before she fired/left him. I guess you could say we tried an intervention already which failed and now its time to move on. Things are a little more complex than that, but we have tried every possible avenue. What she does it up to her, but she still has people that will give her whatever she wants, whenever she wants.

[photon]

Speaking to the larger issue, that sucks I feel them and you, I hope something works out as situations like that it seems like there's no good solution, every option has a downside.

[spetch]

Originally Posted by photon

Speaking to the larger issue, that sucks I feel them and you, I hope something works out as situations like that it seems like there's no good solution, every option has a downside.

Ya it was a tough go for a while, but now that we are moving on things are becoming better. Definitely found out who is genuine and who is fake through this all.

What really opened my eyes is the lack of mental health options in Alberta. There is not a lot out there and what is there you have to be potentially past the point of hurting yourself or others before they consider looking at you. There is also a lot of unqualified or under qualified people out there that should maybe get there education done before they start treating others. I think we should start looking at a hospital/treatment centre that can be more preventative than reactive when it comes the mental health.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by spetch

Yes when we tried to get her help, she was about to become diagnosed with having Borderline Personality Disorder. She was never officially diagnosed but due to the court battles we seen that the one Dr put that it there notes before she fired/left him. I guess you could say we tried an intervention already which failed and now its time to move on. Things are a little more complex than that, but we have tried every possible avenue. What she does it up to her, but she still has people that will give her whatever she wants, whenever she wants.

Ok, and this is the last I'll put up with this, because its outside the borders of the eviction notice

If this was a situation of drug abuse or something like that where you've set those conditions that she get help or its out you go that's one thing.

But evicting a person with a actual serious mental illness without a fallback position, that's a bit ruthless. People with BPD are at the high end of suicide risks. They can't manage their emotions. People with BPD tend to also be cutters or self mutilators. If she was infact diagnosed with this you might actually be doing her a great deal of harm

An intervention isn't going to do any good at all, in fact its probably going to make things worse because it will cause emotional stress and turmoil). People with BPD have a lot of trouble managing their emotions and tend to spiral.

Personally and not to sound brutal, but before you deliver any kind of eviction to her, you might want to talk to a mental health care professional and tell them what your planning to do and get some advice on how to handle it, and get all of your options

[spetch]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ok, and this is the last I'll put up with this, because its outside the borders of the eviction notice

If this was a situation of drug abuse or something like that where you've set those conditions that she get help or its out you go that's one thing.

But evicting a person with a actual serious mental illness without a fallback position, that's a bit ruthless. People with BPD are at the high end of suicide risks. They can't manage their emotions. People with BPD tend to also be cutters or self mutilators. If she was infact diagnosed with this you might actually be doing her a great deal of harm

An intervention isn't going to do any good at all, in fact its probably going to make things worse because it will cause emotional stress and turmoil). People with BPD have a lot of trouble managing their emotions and tend to spiral.

Personally and not to sound brutal, but before you deliver any kind of eviction to her, you might want to talk to a mental health care professional and tell them what your planning to do and get some advice on how to handle it, and get all of your options

Fair enough but what is the line where you have to start looking after your own health problems first. This whole situation has caused a lot more than financial burden on our family and it's time to move on and start looking after themselves. It is a damned if they do and damned if they don't situation. There are a lot of moving parts going on, but to put it in a simple way; She will have a place to live once evicted, it is just not in the house my parents built.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by spetch

Fair enough but what is the line where you have to start looking after your own health problems first. This whole situation has caused a lot more than financial burden on our family and it's time to move on and start looking after themselves. It is a damned if they do and damned if they don't situation. There are a lot of moving parts going on, but to put it in a simple way; She will have a place to live once evicted, it is just not in the house my parents built.

Its a fair question, and I am certainly not qualified to answer it, but I think you need to get that answer.

Its different when your dealing with something like BPD though. Let me put it this way, if its untreated but diagnosed? The actions that she's taking the mood swings, irresponsibility, depression, elation etc. Totally not her fault.

Its also not necessarily about where she's living. Evicting her, or the act of evicting could have some consequences. BPD absolutely feasts on abandonment or even a feeling or suspicion of abandonment.

I think that you need to find out what your options are in terms of diagnosis and help. I get that its tough in Alberta. But I think before you proceed with the eviction you have to know what's possibly going to happen.

I also think that you need to know for sure what the options are for treatment.

Or

You have to absolutely let her go, and then live with the results.

I get it, its tiring, I lived with a girl when I was a lot younger who had a personality disorder. Everything was extremely dramatic and difficult, and hard to manage. The swings that she had were absolutely terrifying, kind of like riding a roller coaster on a unstable rail over a lake of nitroglycerin terrifying.

There was massive transference from her to me as well.

My life suffered to, the really really scary thing is that she was a chameleon she learned to hide things and use them as a advantage when she could. There were times when you thought. "ok, she's ok" but was she? And when those explosions came of instability, and they came out of nowhere, and a bright young smart girl, became sullen and withdrawn, and she lashed out, and she raged and she blamed. Then she was ok, then she was back.

Sure she was diagnosed and they give her all kinds of medications, but it was up to her to take them. I mean man, I was young, but I wasn't the guy that could take care of this. I wasn't the guy that could cowboy up as the saying went, and I left, because I didn't really understand a couple of things.


1) that somehow me leaving was going to scare her onto the straight and narrow and to force her to self reflect and get the help she needed. That never happens with BPD.

2) That it wasn't her fault. I thought she was needy and selfish and manipulative because she was needy and selfish and manipulative. There were times that I felt used and under valued. She at her worst points was an emotional vacuum cleaner.

So I couldn't cowboy up, I left.

It's a decision that I do regret for a lot of reasons.



Make sure you know the options that are out there and the possibilities of what's going to happen before you throw a eviction notice on the table and yell "Blammo"