Francis: Flames left Brouwer exposed. Ferland, Lazar & Bennett protected.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I really don't think Kulak is gone.

Because most teams can only protect 3 defencemen, the defencemen available for Vegas are going to be much better than the forwards. Kulak isn't nearly valued enough league wide to be taken over them.

I really think Stajan has already packed his bags.

I've really bought in to that logic, thanks for presenting that again. Didn't register as much with me before but after seeing some of the lists and hearing some of the rumours about which defensemen are available it seems like Kulak pales in comparison to many. There's an upper limit on the amount of defensemen they can take so it does seem super unlikely to me now that they take Kulak/Wotherspoon.

I guess my new shortlist is

1. Brouwer

Brouwer seems the most valuable to me. Even if Vegas didn't want him as a veteran themselves they might be able to take him, shop him as is or with 1 million retained. I think league wide Brouwer still has some value for sure. GM's will give 2nd chances. With McPhee having traded for and had him before that almost lends more credence to the idea.

2. Stajan

I think the logic that VGK will want centre depth and it will be hard to get in the expansion draft is sound. Therefore Stajan may have greater appeal than his role on the Flames (4th line centre) might indicate because he plays centre and probably could play a line higher on a thinner team. I think there's a chance he's taken.

3. Shinkaruk

I think one of the VGK scouts would have to have been high on Shinkaruk earlier in his career for them to consider that. I kind of think that one is least likely one of the three forwards. Obviously the Flames were believers in his potential earlier and I think he had a promising finish to his AHL season this past year.

If Treliving makes a trade to guarantee this or that player is taken or left alone all bets are off obviously But that's how I'd handicap it before hearing any of the rumours I'm sure we'll hear heading up to the day. After hearing everyone's arguments about it I've actually come to the conclusion that Brouwer is the most likely to be taken.

[FireGilbert]

Not surprised it was a pretty easy choice. I'm thinking there is a 50% chance Brouwer is taken, 30% Stajan, 10% Shinkaruk, 5% Kulak, and 5% off the board.

Also is Francis like the Flames insider now? Gross.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I think that Stajan is taken in the expansion draft, he only has one year left on his contract so at the deadline he would be able to get traded for a second/third round pick and if he doesn't live up to his contract in the next year it isn't as though the Knights are burdened with him for too long. The rest of the players either aren't good enough right now to be selected and play a role on a NHL team (Shinkaruk, Kuluk).

The Knights are going to be in a win now type of mode as at the current time they are the only game in town but soon it sounds like the NFL is going to be moving in and the rest of the city being the entertainment capital of the USA makes it so that there are plenty of alternatives for finite entertainment dollars.

[Karl]

Stajan's salary for 2017-18 season is also over a million less than his cap hit ($2M salary, $3.125M cap hit).

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout_c...or/matt-stajan

Another thing that will work in his favour to be selected by Vegas.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Also is Francis like the Flames insider now? Gross.

Better him than Spector trying to pretend he has any clue about anything that happens south of Leduc.


Not much better, but better, I guess.

[OzSome]

Troy Brouwer is a veteran player and I am sure he understand why did the Flames management protected a young players like Lazar and Ferland over him. I think Vegas will pick one of the young D that Flames exposed. I wouldn't be surprise to see Vegas pick Kulak ahead of Brouwer, Stajan or Bouma. Picking Kulak will give them an offensive defenseman they can play next season or put him on their AHL team to develop more. Wotherspoon might be my 2nd choice to get pick up.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Troy Brouwer is a veteran player and I am sure he understand why did the Flames management protected a young players like Lazar and Ferland over him. I think Vegas will pick one of the young D that Flames exposed. I wouldn't be surprise to see Vegas pick Kulak ahead of Brouwer, Stajan or Bouma. Picking Kulak will give them an offensive defenseman they can play next season or put him on their AHL team to develop more. Wotherspoon might be my 2nd choice to get pick up.

As mentioned already, with the high number of young NHL defensemen available in the expansion draft it is highly unlikely VGK selects an AHL defenseman from the Flames. Vegas does not have their own AHL affiliate, and it will likely be a couple years before they have enough players in the system to fill a minor league roster.

It will be one of Brouwer, Stajan or Shinkaruk.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

I think that Stajan is taken in the expansion draft, he only has one year left on his contract so at the deadline he would be able to get traded for a second/third round pick and if he doesn't live up to his contract in the next year it isn't as though the Knights are burdened with him for too long. The rest of the players either aren't good enough right now to be selected and play a role on a NHL team (Shinkaruk, Kuluk).

The Knights are going to be in a win now type of mode as at the current time they are the only game in town but soon it sounds like the NFL is going to be moving in and the rest of the city being the entertainment capital of the USA makes it so that there are plenty of alternatives for finite entertainment dollars.

I think this is a bit of a short sighted view as to what mode Vegas is in. If you're building a team from the base up, starting not a rebuild but a true build what are the things you want most? Young assets in particular. Young players that can be the foundation of your team for years.

Obviously Vegas has to ice a team next year and they want to be entertaining but they will get a lot better players than previous expansion teams. They can't pick only picks/prospects, they will get some players for now. But make no mistake, the assets they covet most are young assets and they'd be happy to take players that other teams will trade good young players, prospects or picks for. To say they are in win now mode is extremely misleading. They have to balance trying to build a winner for the future with being entertaining right away just like any building or rebuilding team.

All that said if you're an expansion team the smart move is to take the most valuable asset from each team given the parameters available in regards to how many number of forwards, defensemen, goalies. You suggest they will take the player that helps them win the most now. I think that's wrong, they will take the asset that holds the most value league wide and then potentially parlay that asset into something else.

Vegas will take a lot of players they never plan on playing. They will take players merely to trade them immediately to another team. Will they take some vets? Sure. And I think Brouwer and Stajan are possibilities. But mostly because they are likely to be the most valuable assets we leave unprotected, not because they help Vegas win now.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Bolded the only guys I would be disappointed to lose. Here's hopin'!

Kulak has done absolutely nothing for the Flames and I doubt Vegas takes him because he looks more and more like a career AHL're

[iloveicedhockey]

Anyone think klimchuk is more likely than finish to get picked? I genuinely don't know.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

Anyone think klimchuk is more likely than finish to get picked? I genuinely don't know.

If you want, we can make a $250,000 bet that the Vegas Golden Knights don't select Morgan Klimchuk in expansion.

[Roof-Daddy]

nm

[Strange Brew]

I think there's an outside chance Bartkowski gets picked. 6/7 defenseman on a cheap contract.

[MarkGio]

There is no way Vegas is just going to take Stajan. You guys are not thinking. You have one chance to take a free asset and you think they'll just waste it?

They'll either take an asset with long term benefit, or they leverage a team into providing an asset with long term benefit.

Like if they wanted Stajan they could just trade their 7th round pick for him. They don't need to waste an expansion pick....

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If you want, we can make a $250,000 bet that the Vegas Golden Knights don't select Morgan Klimchuk in expansion.

A simple no would've sufficed. I wasn't suggesting they'd take him over maybe a stajan, kulak or whomever. Klimchuk had a decent bounce back season with similar production to shinkaruk, so was just asking the question if Vegas wanted a forward prospect as opposed to whatever else they could get.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

There is no way Vegas is just going to take Stajan. You guys are not thinking. You have one chance to take a free asset and you think they'll just waste it?

They'll either take an asset with long term benefit, or they leverage a team into providing an asset with long term benefit.

OK, what assets are the Flames leaving exposed that will provide Vegas with long-term benefit?

Like if they wanted Stajan they could just trade their 7th round pick for him. They don't need to waste an expansion pick....

If they don't want anybody else off the Flames' exposed list, why waste a 7th-round pick? The expansion pick has to be used regardless.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

A simple no would've sufficed. Klimchuk had a decent bounce back season with similar production to shinkaruk.

He's messing with you because Klimchuk is exempt from the expansion draft.

He 100% cannot be selected by Vegas with an expansion pick.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

A simple no would've sufficed. Klimchuk had a decent bounce back season with similar production to shinkaruk.

It was just a little joke. Klimchuk and Jankowski are both expansion-exempt.

[iloveicedhockey]

Ah shoot, sorry. I've only been here for 4 years so don't have much background knowledge on who's played. I'll Google next time to spare myself the embarrassment!

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

I believe he's suggesting they wouldn't take Brouwer unless Treliving paid them to. Which is silly, IMO.

Is it though? I'd be totally fine with losing Kulak or Shinkaruk as a sweetener for McPhee to take Brouwer.

Kulak might turn into a serviceable bottom 2 defenseman but Andersson, Kylington have higher ceilings and even though he a good 4 years away Fox looks real good. I feel that Morisson is about = to Kulak as well. That's 3 guys that could replace Kulak as early has next season.

Shinkaruk has been average at best in the AHL and has easily been surpassed by Jankowski and Mangiapane. Klimchuk has a good bounce back season and it's possible Pourier could have a renaissance after getting his head sorted.