Work Done for/by Friends

[CaptainYooh]

Consider two scenarios:

Scenario A:

Say, your friend asked you to help him with something that is your line of work. Whatever it is, this is what you do and you normally get paid for doing this work. Obviously, he will pay for your out-of-pocket costs (materials, fees, or whatever else you'd have to pay out-of-pocket). Do you think your friend should pay you for your time? If not, great. If yes, how much:

1. less than what you'd normally get for it, because it's a favour;
2. same as what you'd normally get;
3. more than what you'd normally get, because he's a friend and you don't need to be too competitive.

Scenario B (the other side of the coin):

Say, you have asked your friend to help you with something that is his line of work. Whatever it is, this is what he does and normally gets paid for doing that work. Obviously, you are willing to pay for his out-of-pocket costs. But do you think your friend should charge you for his time helping you? If no, great. If yes, how much:

1. less than what you'd pay for it to someone else, because it's a favour;
2. same as what you'd expect to pay to someone else;
3. more than what you'd normally pay someone else, because he's a friend and you don't mind letting him make a few extra bucks off you.

Think of whatever you do to earn your living (trade, creative, consulting, government, whatever) and use it to assess your responses.

I have been on both sides of this fence and, I admit, I often felt conflicted by the dilemma. In other words, my feelings were not balanced/same in each scenario. I am interested to learn what others think of it.

[Slava]

I have done things for free or even at a cost to me for friends and paid full price for their services. I don't "keep score" though. I figure all that kind of thing evens out over time.

[Nage Waza]

Friends is free, up to a certain amount of time. Paint a bedroom, free. Paint a house is no chance.

Unless she is really hot of course.

[bossy22]

I have to charge something for my time so I charge a discounted rate for friends. I have one friend who says, you don't charge enough, and he gives me a tip or beer. I have others who don't have a lot and they appreciate it. I have some who expect my time for free, so I use my discretion in these times. If I'm not busy, I will help. If I have things on the go, I won't help. I never expect a deal personally.

[OMG!WTF!]

I hate these scenarios. I can't take money from friends and I can't not pay friends. So it never really works. I've had a loan with a friend for two years at a ridiculously low rate. So I feel like I'm losing out on tens of thousands a year in interest and he feels like he's paying me more than a buddy rate. So it's not really good for either. I'd rather not deal with friends.

[btimbit]

I've done thousands of dollars worth of work for friends, as long as I'm being fed beer the entire time, we're even.

[indes]

If you want me to do something for you, you better have beer. Money is also a poor substitute for beer while working.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Slava

I have done things for free or even at a cost to me for friends and paid full price for their services. I don't "keep score" though. I figure all that kind of thing evens out over time.

I'm the same way. I'll always pay for their services. When the scenario is reversed, I'd be embarrassed to even ask, especially if it was a good friend.

[fundmark19]

It really depends what it is. If it's something I just need help with and need their expertise just to make sure I don't screw it up I don't really expect to pay. They are always compensated with beer. If it is something for say my rental properties I will pay full price for services.

I pride myself as always helping out when asked with anything so I don't feel bad taking advantage of their knowledge when I need it. Plus I have a truck which is always being lender out and I don't expect anything in return for people borrowing it. What goes around comes around.

[Fire in the disco]

One of my best buds is a plumber, he recently installed some toilets and a dishwasher for me. Of course we had beers during but I feel like it would be a weird transaction between friends to set a pay rate, I imagine he would feel the same. We went golfing this weekend and I picked up his round. I feel that for good friends this is the type of thing you should do

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

... I've had a loan with a friend for two years at a ridiculously low rate. So I feel like I'm losing out on tens of thousands a year in interest ...

[Jacks]

As long as it is reciprocated and not abused I don't charge friends to help them.

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I hate these scenarios. I can't take money from friends and I can't not pay friends. So it never really works. I've had a loan with a friend for two years at a ridiculously low rate. So I feel like I'm losing out on tens of thousands a year in interest and he feels like he's paying me more than a buddy rate. So it's not really good for either. I'd rather not deal with friends.

Holy crap Rockefeller, how much was that loan?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Jacks

As long as it is reciprocated and not abused I don't charge friends to help them.


Holy crap Rockefeller, how much was that loan?

Kind of a lot. But for what it's worth I can't afford to live in my own house because I keep lending money to people. I thought it would be fun living in an RV. They said it would be fun. It is not.

[Green Machine]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Friends is free, up to a certain amount of time. Paint a bedroom, free. Paint a house is no chance.

Unless she is really hot of course.

I tend to apply the same principle for friends asking for work. My cutoff for helping out for free vs expecting some sort of reduced payment is usually around a days worth of work. Depending on the friend, many would offer payment and I would typically refuse if it is a one day or under project. It's always nice to have a built up base of favours when you need a hand with something down the road as well.

This worked well in the past years ago when I ran a painting business. Typically painting is something you go help people while they are contributing as well. You can get them set up with a good discount on the materials and leave them to wrap up a larger project after helping for a day and setting them on the right track.

I switched trades ten years ago into custom metal fabrication and find it a little more difficult to navigate. I'll still have friends that want something suitable built by me that I can build for a heavily discounted material cost. Such as custom shelving, countertops, bars and railings; but will often have people approach me about building stuff that is mass produced for maybe 40% more than the materials would cost. If it is something that you can buy mass produced than your only reason asking me to build it is to try and save money by taking advantage of my free labour.

I mean, yeah, I could build that item you're pointing at in the catalog, but if you don't want or require anything different about it, why not buy it from there. That is what I would do. I had an acquaintance, who I had helped out with both some painting and modifications to a trailer hitch he bought, ask me if I could cut out a portions of his rusting truck panels, form and weld new metal panels in and then grind them to be repainted. The fact that I could do that doesn't mean it is an efficient way to deal with your autobody work and you probably should just go to an autobody shop to get it done. When I suggested that, he indicated that he was hoping to get it done cheaper and he wasn't super worried if it didn't look perfect, but I don't think he understands the disparity in efficiency between the two methods and the only reason it would be cheaper would be from me subsidizing his tightwad tendencies with my generous donation of free labour. I ended up having to tell him I was too busy.

[calgaryblood]

I hate working for friends, cousins, or even anyone of my own race. paid or otherwise.

And "helping" always means I'm doing everything because they have no idea what to do. And I really hate doing what I do everyday on my only day off and especially for free.

I also had a friend ask me to help him drywall....I told him I'm not a drywaller and don't know how to do it. When he asked for some help loading drywall into the house, I flat out told him when I built my basement I paid a company to deliver it for me because I don't like doing that kind of work so no offense but no.

I just wish some would be more considerate with asking for help.

[Amethyst]

If I was asking a friend for something he/she was in business for, I would ask what the cost was and expect to pay the going rate. The reason for asking a friend would really be more to get someone I trust to not cut corners, rather than hiring a random person online. If my friend could give me a discount on some materials, I would be grateful but not expect it. If they offered to do it for free or a very low charge, I would give them something else in exchange (wine, dinner at a nice restaurant, etc).

I don't really have the kind of job where people would "hire" me so the opposite doesn't really apply, but if it did, I would expect the same. If friends were expecting me to work for free or a very low rate because I was their friend, I would tell them I was too busy at the moment, but I could recommend another good company.

[DoubleF]

If a friend is involved, I treat the situation as if I am getting an estimate, every single time. Something like, "Hey, if we do thing job, how much would you charge me? Do I get a friendship discount?" I've run into situations when I was young and stupid where I assumed things and it ended up getting ugly. I've also seen situations where people did a crappy job because they weren't paid to do it which hurt not only that person's reputation but the friendship as well. It's stupid, but people are like that sometimes. IMO, asking a friend is mainly to see if you can get a better price or if you can get work done at non-typical work hours.


I ask friends for the going rate. If I get a discount, great. If no, no hard feelings if I go elsewhere.

I tell friends my going rate before telling them my discounted rate. In the past, I ran into idiots who acted as if I were begging them to take my business because the rate was lower than other rates he could acquire elsewhere. Long story short, this idiot is no longer friends not just with me, nor many mutual friends. Some people try to use the friend discount and take advantage of friends who are too nice.

If it's just some manual labour or favor etc. Half an hour or less I charge nothing and expect nothing. But if it's more than that and generally a bigger favor, I generally negotiate dinner and/or drinks depending on the effort required.

Discount wise from me, it depends. If I have zero responsibilities after the work is done and it's less than 30 mins, nothing/favor/booze/dinner is perfectly fine. If I have responsibilities later, I charge my going rate and determine if I am willing to discount up to 50% before starting the job.

and because I have run into the issues, if it's an agreement over a few hundred bucks, I want invoices involved. It's one thing to find out a friend is a dick and walking away from a small sum. It's another to find out a friend is a dick and dealing with a sum you're not happy losing and/or no paperwork to get other individuals involved.


If someone throws a fit because they aren't getting the friend discount they want, I generally believe you do not want to be involved.

[2ArmBands]

Im an Electrician by trade so I get this all the time. Honestly, I hate it. In fact I find it pretty insulting when people offer me pizza and beer. If it's a small thing sure I can help out but anything above 4 hours I do expect payment. I have a wife and kids... my time is worth at least what I make during the week.

Someone above mentioned some beers and picking up the tab on a round of golf. That seems great to me that's a good way to bridge the gap. My personal favourite is trading of services. I'm happy to help my carpenter friend out if he in return helps me out with a deck project etc...

I did get burnt once so I do look pretty sour on the whole thing. I once wired an entire basement for a neighbor of mine essentially for free. He was an accountant and I asked him for some help with some tax related issues a few months later. This guy actually sent me a bill? Still can't get over this one....

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I hate these scenarios. I can't take money from friends and I can't not pay friends. So it never really works. I've had a loan with a friend for two years at a ridiculously low rate. So I feel like I'm losing out on tens of thousands a year in interest and he feels like he's paying me more than a buddy rate. So it's not really good for either. I'd rather not deal with friends.

Dude, never lend a buddy over a million dollars.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

Dude, never lend a buddy over a million dollars.

Shhhh.