[Rumour] Friedman: Hanifin headed to market; Markstrom waiting

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by madmike

Yeah I suspect the next 4-5 years are going to be extremely ugly. But on the plus side that’s how most teams eventually get good.

Ottawa, Buffalo, Columbus, Anaheim fans would argue with you cause their last 4-5 yrs. have been ugly and they still aren't good.

[MolsonInBothHands]

In before the stupid Eric Francis comments that add nothing arrive.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by dino7c

It was only 21 years ago, basically yesterday lol

Oh my God we're old...I hate you so much.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

And if you don't win the lottery, which no one has a strong chance of, you still pick in the top 5 or 10 and get a better player.

Either way its of benefit to be closer to the bottom of the pack. Especially in a draft year that isn't as strong as most.

The commentary about this being a weak draft are exaggerated
I think it’s an average to above average draft.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Ottawa, Buffalo, Columbus, Anaheim fans would argue with you cause their last 4-5 yrs. have been ugly and they still aren't good.

I know it's Francis and i know what he's doing, but I'm just curious why the Flames media is so interested in this "can/should we rebuild?" debate now. We all understand that in a couple weeks the 3-4 will potentially be Kylington-Pachal, and the 5-6 Gilbert-Solovyov, and the starter maybe Vladar or Wolf. It's an obsolete question now. It doesn't matter if you don't believe in rebuilds, it's happening.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The commentary about this being a weak draft are exaggerated

I think it’s an average to above average draft.

I have zero idea, but I choose to trust you...

[Heavy Jack]

Just take a peruse through the draft thread, Sandman has broken down the draft quite extensively and there are lots of reasons to be excited at the prospects of owning multiple 1sts this year, even in the 20-32 range.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The commentary about this being a weak draft are exaggerated
I think it’s an average to above average draft.

Just like the Old Gypsy Woman said!

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Scooter

Ottawa, Buffalo, Columbus, Anaheim fans would argue with you cause their last 4-5 yrs. have been ugly and they still aren't good.

Because they’re fundamentally not good hockey organizations in other ways.

The Flames might be try hards, but they do often at least achieve a baseline level of competence from a hockey ops perspective.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The commentary about this being a weak draft are exaggerated
I think it’s an average to above average draft.

What’s your reasoning for thinking it’s average +? At the high end of the draft, I’m not overly high on my (very limited) viewings of the top rated prospects. The WJC, while not the be all end all, didn’t paint any one player as being the best of their class. Even Celebrini didn’t overly stand out above the others the same way Bedard and Michkov did 2 years ago.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Have to echo what you're saying here. For the past few years it's been well known that 2023 was going to be a great draft followed by very weak draft in 2024 and then a very average draft in 2025. Mark Edwards from hockeyprospects.com has called 2024 the worst draft in 20 years. The draft has one top end talent - NOT a franchise player - and then another half dozen players to be top line/pair players. After that more of gamble than other drafts. More quality on the blue line than any other position. Few top end options at center after Celibrini and Lindstom, and the latter is a step down. This is one where the scouts will have to do some magic and find players that are overperformers post draft. It's always better to have more picks in a draft but this draft is one where you're not likely to come out of it with the "haul" some people are hoping for. This sounds like it will be more 2013 and you're going to draft guys that will play down the lineup rather than up the lineup.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

What’s your reasoning for thinking it’s average +? At the high end of the draft, I’m not overly high on my (very limited) viewings of the top rated prospects. The WJC, while not the be all end all, didn’t paint any one player as being the best of their class. Even Celebrini didn’t overly stand out above the others the same way Bedard and Michkov did 2 years ago.

Oh I don't think it's as good as last year's draft, largely because of Bedard and to a lesser extent a really strong 4some with him, Michkov, Carlsson and Fantilli. The top end was better. But I think the top end is on par with most years. And what is interesting about this draft is the strength on D, where it has a chance be one of the best drafts in terms of guys who could potentially be top pairing or #1 guys.

I think once you gets into the 20s it's almost impossible to compare draft to draft - the strength of a draft is set at the top end.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Have to echo what you're saying here. For the past few years it's been well known that 2023 was going to be a great draft followed by very weak draft in 2024 and then a very average draft in 2025. Mark Edwards from hockeyprospects.com has called 2024 the worst draft in 20 years. The draft has one top end talent - NOT a franchise player - and then another half dozen players to be top line/pair players. After that more of gamble than other drafts. More quality on the blue line than any other position. Few top end options at center after Celibrini and Lindstom, and the latter is a step down. This is one where the scouts will have to do some magic and find players that are overperformers post draft. It's always better to have more picks in a draft but this draft is one where you're not likely to come out of it with the "haul" some people are hoping for. This sounds like it will be more 2013 and you're going to draft guys that will play down the lineup rather than up the lineup.

Getting three guys who can play in the NHL out of this draft could easily be as important to the team as the draft where they’re able to snag a truly elite talent.

Klimchuk and Poirier never being able to even crack the lineup was a real blow.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Getting three guys who can play in the NHL out of this draft could easily be as important to the team as the draft where they’re able to snag a truly elite talent.

Don't disagree. They need to turn these picks into gold. It's unfortunate the draft isn't a higher quality where those players could have been really good players. Let's hope the scouts do well and pick guys that play and don't repeat 2013. Hard to believe that with three picks in the top 30 they hit on the two guys from that opening round that would play the least number of games in the NHL.

[Wastedyouth]

I look at the points/production/stats of the 2024 draft top20 players.

I don't really see any difference from the top players from last year (minus Bedard).

I am not sure what I am missing.

Buium, Parehk, Demidov, Celebrini, Catton, Eiserman are all as good if not better than most of the players 2-10 last year. Hell, kids like Buium and Parehk and Demidov are having historical years.

[AustinL_NHL]

It's a perfect scenario for the Flames that the 2024 is looked at as "weak".

Let other teams value their picks at a much lesser extent, take advantage, and let a top 5 scouting staff in the NHL work its magic.

[Heavy Jack]

^^^ such a great point

[Strange Brew]

I would love a look back analysis on drafts that were historical strong or weak at the time.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Oh I don't think it's as good as last year's draft, largely because of Bedard and to a lesser extent a really strong 4some with him, Michkov, Carlsson and Fantilli. The top end was better. But I think the top end is on par with most years. And what is interesting about this draft is the strength on D, where it has a chance be one of the best drafts in terms of guys who could potentially be top pairing or #1 guys.

I think once you gets into the 20s it's almost impossible to compare draft to draft - the strength of a draft is set at the top end.

I’ll take your word on the D prospects as I hope that is true with the flames pick. Losing as much of our D core as we expect to trade away, getting a blue chip prospect would be a major step.

What draft would be an average draft year for top end talent then? Do you feel the top end is akin to these years?

2020 with Lafreniere, Stutzle, Guhle and Neighbors
2019 with Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Byram
2018 with Dahlin, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi and B Tkachuk

[Freeway]

There aren't any generational players in the 2024 class, but there's a lot of quality in the first round. It peters out a little bit after the top 20-25 from what I've been told, but the "second round" mix is pretty steady from top to bottom and players taken in the third round should still be pretty decent.