Comparing top 15 prospects from other Canadian teams

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Quality, not depth is the most important aspect of a prospect pool. The majority of these guys aren't going to pan out as hoped/expected.

Would any NHL GM trade Connor McDavid for any of the other team's entire top ten list?

Only Winnipeg would make me think.


Chicago is widely touted as having great success bringing young players through. Their pool from 2011 was ranked 5th in the NHL by Hockey Prospectus in 2011.

1. Marcus Kruger, Center
2. Jeremy Morin, Left Wing
3. Mark McNeill, Center
4. Brandon Pirri, Center
5. Kyle Beach, Left Wing
6. Shawn Lalonde, Defense
7. Jimmy Hayes, Right Wing
8. Dylan Olsen, Defense
9. Brandon Saad, Left Wing
10. Kevin Hayes, Left Wing


Would you trade McDavid for Saad, Pirri, Hayes brothers and Kruger?

Edmonton also has another couple of blue chip prospects in addition to McDavid. Winnipeg looks to have a handful of bluechippers as well. Toronto and Calgary both have some quality at the top. The other teams don't seem to have any sure thing prospects in their systems.

1.Edmonton
2.Winnipeg
3.Toronto/Calgary
4.Montreal/Ottawa/Vancouver

Outside McDavid, Sam Bennet is the bluest to the blue chippers left. Better then anything the Leafs have, better then anything the Jets have. Going by your criteria Flames should be second.

[Enoch Root]

Another reason that the Flames' depth is important is that it allowed them to easily trade a 1st and 2 2nds to acquire another core piece in Hamilton.

Edit: and still acquired one of the most talented players in the draft at the end of the 2nd round!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Armia is comparable to Baertschi right now

Petan is talented but very small - he'll probably have to be converted to wing. I would rather have Poirier.

Not sure about Morrissey yet - good skater but he isn't big and he seems timid to me. We'll see what kind of NHLer he can become. Hickey is gaining on him rapidly.

Hellebuyck - excellent prospect. I'll take the combination of Gillies, Ortio and MacDonald though (the more prospects the better when it comes to goalies)

Ehlers has all the talent in the world. But Ill take Bennett, thank you very much. I put a lot of stock in grit and character - especially when it is combined with high-end talent.

Beyond these guys, Calgary's depth is much better.

You might be right on most of these, but I question you constantly rating Calgary's group as better.

Won't argue on Armia, but he's probably still a better prospect than Baertschi...whom we no longer have anyway so I'm not sure why you brought him up.

Petan is incredibly talented, and while he might be a winger in the NHL, he'll still be a fantastic one. Poirier is trending well, but Petan has always had the higher ceiling and is also trending towards reaching it.

Morrissey is going to be an excellent NHL defenseman. Hickey is talented, but he's only had one impressive season to base anything on. Morrissey has done more for longer against a higher level of competition. No way Hickey is on his level.

Goalie predictions are difficult at best, but Hellebuyck is as good a prospect as you can have. I agree that having a combination of 3 goalies who could be as good as Hellebuyck is a better scenario since you never know who will pan out, but Hellebuyck is probably their future starter without much question.

Ehlers looks like he will be an elite scoring winger, possibly one of the best players in his draft class. I love Bennett too, but I'm not sure that he'll end up being better than Ehlers, at least offensively.

The more I think about it, both the Flames and Jets are probably going to peak around the same time, Vancouver is in a steady decline, and the Oilers are the Oilers, so I imagine that the Jets might become our biggest Canadian rival in the very near future.

[MrMastodonFarm]

This is why, while interesting, these threads are doomed to fail. Instead of an honest discussion you get opposing fans defending their team no matter what. If it's a bunch of Oiler fans on an Oiler site, Jets fans on a Jets site etc etc, at least you'd get some honesty outside your team, the bias would be gone.

Now? Just guys defending their team. It's why those threads on Hfboards turns into such a gong show.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Brodie, Gaudreau, and Giordano are the only impact NHL players on that list and none of them would have been on the Flames top ten prospect list at the same time so I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion.

Also, Brodie and Gaudreau were on top 10 lists (not that that makes any difference whatsoever)

Also, how is having 'only' 3 impact players any kind of a negative for you to use as a rebuttal.

Brodie and Giordano are both better than any defenseman the Oilers have, or have had in the last number of years. And Gaudreau is pretty good too.

So what is the point that there is only 3?

(again, ignoring that the Oilers could desperately use Ferland and Bouma)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

You might be right on most of these, but I question you constantly rating Calgary's group as better.

Won't argue on Armia, but he's probably still a better prospect than Baertschi...whom we no longer have anyway so I'm not sure why you brought him up.

Petan is incredibly talented, and while he might be a winger in the NHL, he'll still be a fantastic one. Poirier is trending well, but Petan has always had the higher ceiling and is also trending towards reaching it.

Morrissey is going to be an excellent NHL defenseman. Hickey is talented, but he's only had one impressive season to base anything on. Morrissey has done more for longer against a higher level of competition. No way Hickey is on his level.

Goalie predictions are difficult at best, but Hellebuyck is as good a prospect as you can have. I agree that having a combination of 3 goalies who could be as good as Hellebuyck is a better scenario since you never know who will pan out, but Hellebuyck is probably their future starter without much question.

Ehlers looks like he will be an elite scoring winger, possibly one of the best players in his draft class. I love Bennett too, but I'm not sure that he'll end up being better than Ehlers, at least offensively.

The more I think about it, both the Flames and Jets are probably going to peak around the same time, Vancouver is in a steady decline, and the Oilers are the Oilers, so I imagine that the Jets might become our biggest Canadian rival in the very near future.

I mentioned Baertschi as a point of reference. Armia is in the same boat in that he looks good in a the AHL but hasn't been able to take the next step yet. They are actually very similar IMO.

[MrMastodonFarm]

If Ehlers could play center instead of just the wing I'd be much more interested in him as a prospect, putting him closer to Bennett's level. Besides offense, which is a saw off, I prefer Bennet in most categories.

Alas he can't play center, so I don't.

Obviously a good prospect, would love to have him but using the OSPR system (oil stain prospect ranking) he is quality not blue chip.

[CaptainCrunch]

Edmonton
1) Connor McDavid - C - Erie Otters - OHL - 100%
2) Darnell Nurse - D - Soo Greyhounds - OHL - 66%
3) Leon Draisaitl - C - Kelowna Rockets - WHL - 30%*
4) Griffin Reinhart - D - Bridgeport S.Tigers - AHL - 78%
5) Bogdan Yakimov - C - OKC Barons - AHL - 38%
6) Laurent Brossoit - G - OKC Barons - AHL - 49%
7) Anton Slepyshev - LW - Salavat Yulayev - KHL - 49%
8) Greg Chase - RW - Victoria Royals - WHL - 36%
9) Joey LaLeggia - D - University of Denver - NCAA - 36%
10) Kyle Platzer - C/RW - Owen Sound Attack - OHL - 20%

Outside of McDavid and Nurse, the question marks start early and often for the Oilers prospect pool.

Draisaitl looks good on the junior level, but his exposure to the NHL showed a guy with subpar skating skills and a real tentativeness. I would expect that Edmonton is going to try to rush him, but the smart move would be to stick him in the AHL with a strict no recall rule for a year.

Reinhart I think that the Islanders laughed when the Oiler's came calling and took a guy that looks like a dud off of their hands. Slow, big and tentative, he'll probably be forced into the NHL by the Oilers lack of depth in a top 3 role and flounder.

If Broissent is their answer in goal they've got problems, Yakimov is getting seriously overhyped by the Oilers fan base over at that other board. He's big but that's about it.

The Oilers if they run into any injury problems are in big trouble. There's no doubt that a guy like McDavid tilts the scale on their prospect pool a lot, but I barely consider him to be a prospect because there's no chance that he's not their number one center to please the unwashed masses in Edmonton this fall.

Nurse is going to be very good, but there are some questions around his hockey sense which is a lot like Dennis Gauthier or Phaneuf. But the Oilers are going to push Nurse into the NHL this year because of their horrid blueline depth.

[Strange Brew]

My hate for the Oilers runs deep so please don't misinterpret my post but those top four prospects are scary good. You would have to consider trading everyone on our list for them. But it wouldn't matter, no way they (Oilers) make that trade.

The only consolation is that the BofA is going to be very relevant soon.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Outside McDavid, Sam Bennet is the bluest to the blue chippers left. Better then anything the Leafs have, better then anything the Jets have. Going by your criteria Flames should be second.

I'd put guys like Bennett, Draisaitl, Marner, Nylander, and Ehlers in the same group at this point.

All high picks with good pedigree and good numbers with a lot yet to be written. Bennett has shown the most in the NHL so far, but with the exception of Draisaitl the others haven't had a chance yet.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

This is why, while interesting, these threads are doomed to fail. Instead of an honest discussion you get opposing fans defending their team no matter what. If it's a bunch of Oiler fans on an Oiler site, Jets fans on a Jets site etc etc, at least you'd get some honesty outside your team, the bias would be gone.

Now? Just guys defending their team. It's why those threads on Hfboards turns into such a gong show.

I would think the general consensus would be

1) Winnipeg
2) Calgary or Edmonton (depending on how much you want to weight McDavid)
4) Toronto or Montreal, depending on preferences
6) Ottawa
7) Vancouver

My point against Winnipeg is that their key guys - Ehlers, Petan and Morrissey are all softer, offensive guys and not very big

I think they are one-dimensional in that respect, and I am not sure how well that will transfer to the NHL. Personal opinion.

But I respect the talent level. It's possible to debate without being a blind homer

[Sutter_in_law]

nm

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Also, Brodie and Gaudreau were on top 10 lists (not that that makes any difference whatsoever)

Also, how is having 'only' 3 impact players any kind of a negative for you to use as a rebuttal.

Brodie and Giordano are both better than any defenseman the Oilers have, or have had in the last number of years. And Gaudreau is pretty good too.

So what is the point that there is only 3?

(again, ignoring that the Oilers could desperately use Ferland and Bouma)

My point was if we are ranking current prospects, then who the Flames acquired in the past(Giordano) has zero relevance.

Pittsburgh doesn't get a credit for their prospect pool because they have Crosby, Malkin, and Letang on their NHL roster.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

My hate for the Oilers runs deep so please don't misinterpret my post but those top four prospects are scary good. You would have to consider trading everyone on our list for them. But it wouldn't matter, no way they (Oilers) make that trade.

The only consolation is that the BofA is going to be very relevant soon.

Nurse has all the tools to be great.

I am not convinced on Draisaitl - certainly not enough to call him scary.

And I think people are going to quickly see why the Islanders moved Reinhart. I don't think he has the skating to be an impact NHLer.

[MoneyGuy]

I think that prospects have to be weighted, with the top guy being hugely important and giving far lesser weighting as you go down the list. That's obvious, I suppose, but let me explain. I think that a team's No. 1 is often more valuable than - at the very least - everything below No. 3 or 4.

The outstanding blue-chippers may be worth more than your entire prospect pool combined. McDavid is in that category. He's probably worth more than every team's Nos. 2 through 10 combined.

There are other blue-chippers like Bennett and Ehlers who are not in the same category but likely to be great players and worth more than packages of several players below them.

I think that all teams' top-five list is the group that will hugely influence a team's future and that prospects below No. 5 are far less important. You'd better find a player or two below No. 5 but they're unlikely to be major contributors. In most cases they may be third- and fourth-line forwards, guys you need to have but players in abundance.

It's early and I don't know if I'm making my point clearly.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Depth is important, if the Oilers had anything besides their 1st overall picks make an impact over the past several years they wouldn't be in a continuous mess. Yeah, impact top prospects are good, but you need depth, more picks, more prospects, more bullets in the chamber.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Depth is important, if the Oilers had anything besides their 1st overall picks make an impact over the past several years they wouldn't be in a continuous mess. Yeah, impact top prospects are good, but you need depth, more picks, more prospects, more bullets in the chamber.

Yup, you need both. Quality and depth.

And that's why Winnipeg and Calgary's are the best

[GranteedEV]

The fact that Van has Demko @ 4 is pretty funny. I would take McDonald over him 10/10 times and McDonald was #12 on our list.

That means Van's #4 is Calgary's #13 at best

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I'd put guys like Bennett, Draisaitl, Marner, Nylander, and Ehlers in the same group at this point.

All high picks with good pedigree and good numbers with a lot yet to be written. Bennett has shown the most in the NHL so far, but with the exception of Draisaitl the others haven't had a chance yet.

I would think that Bennett's performance in the playoffs would set him pretty squarely ahead of virtually every one of the others. He is now a relatively well known commodity, whereas Marner, Nylander, and Ehlers are still the equivalent of magic beans: we can't know how they will pan out until they do. Bennett has at least shown with his opportunity that he very likely will.

Draisatl is not in the same class, no. What separates him from all the others is his plodding footspeed, which is more often than any other single factor THE detriment to a player's ability to find success at the next level. Sure, he could prove to be an exception, but based on how he played in his 40 NHL games last season, I would have to think that there are real concerns about whether he will ever manage to play at a high enough pace to make an impact.

[saXon]

Take away gift wrapped McDavid with a bow on top, and the Oilers prospect pool crumbles. Nurse isn't enough to hold it together. Nor is Draisaitl.

I wish McDavid a good and long career, but things happen. If all your eggs are in one basket on a single player to save your franchise, disappointment will come like a thief in the night. Injuries, concussions, off rink living situations, outside factors, stupid choices, etc.

See Lindros, Boogaard, Voynov, and so on.