Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 12-14-2015, 07:01 AM   #41
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos View Post
Yeah, the stats do apply to the average person in the United States. That is exactly the point -- that the risk being massively overblown in the United States. That's it.
It's suggesting that terrorism is an overblown issue because you're not terribly likely to die from it. And I'm saying that this is entirely beside the point. As someone stated above, this simply marginalizes what is, almost certainly, the political problem of our lifetime.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 07:59 AM   #42
Thor
God of Hating Twitter
 
Thor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
It's suggesting that terrorism is an overblown issue because you're not terribly likely to die from it.
Yes, in the US, and Canada, and EU.. Pretty much anywhere but the middle east in conflict areas and parts of Africa. These statistics say nothing of them, where clearly the danger is very real.

Quote:
And I'm saying that this is entirely beside the point. As someone stated above, this simply marginalizes what is, almost certainly, the political problem of our lifetime.
You are missing the point. Its only speaking to the fear based on something less dangerous than weather related deaths, or a whole host of other more likely ways to be harmed in our daily life. It does not speak to the politics of the problem, but how the fear based media and political talking heads are spreading fear and fostering more bigotry and hatred on a while massive part of the worlds population based on irrational fear or fear of harm which is almost non existent to us in the west.

The fear is causing a massive increase in threats to Muslims, Mosques, and this is dangerous, much much more so than any possible outside terrorist threat.
__________________
Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
Thor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 09:51 AM   #43
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

So you'd suggest, what, that the media in the US, Canada and the EU ignore the problem? Treat it as if it weren't anything to concern ourselves about? Maybe if we just don't talk about it, the #######s who live in our countries won't act like #######s? I'm not sure what exactly what your goal is here. This is a global problem, it's everyone's business, and it's absolutely something people need to be concerned about.

I also think Trump's rhetoric is something to be concerned about, for various reasons. He's going to fail, he's going to blame his failure on others like the "establishment", his die-hard supporters are going to agree with him and become bitter and resentful vis a vis the "establishment", and will further radicalize and do crazy ####. But those actions aren't a matter of rational self-preservation, so what's the sense in telling people, "no need to beat up that woman in a hijab, you're more likely to die in a car crash than from a bomb made by someone who looks kind of like her"?
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 06:36 PM   #44
RougeUnderoos
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clinching Party
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
So you'd suggest, what, that the media in the US, Canada and the EU ignore the problem? Treat it as if it weren't anything to concern ourselves about? Maybe if we just don't talk about it, the #######s who live in our countries won't act like #######s? I'm not sure what exactly what your goal is here. This is a global problem, it's everyone's business, and it's absolutely something people need to be concerned about.
You just made that all up and asked if that's what "our goal is here". I'm in no position to speak for anyone else, but I'm positive that nobody involved in this discussion has the goal that we all just ignore the subject of terrorism entirely. They can correct me if I'm wrong.

There is a not-very-fine-at-all line between ignoring terrorism and becoming paranoid, xenophobic, and hysterical about it. It's a big, thick line, in fact. It's really wide.
__________________


Last edited by RougeUnderoos; 12-14-2015 at 06:53 PM.
RougeUnderoos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 07:26 PM   #45
Fozzie_DeBear
Wucka Wocka Wacka
 
Fozzie_DeBear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: East of the Rockies, West of the Rest
Exp:
Default

The threat is real...but the media and the general public's response (particularly in the USA) is counter-productive. In my opinion, the only path to defeating ISIS is to delegitimize their narrative...this may happen if they are widely viewed as un-Islamic and unattractive. This can only happen from within the Islamic world.

Activities that make Muslims feel ostracized support the ISIS narrative that Muslims should come to the ISIS regions. One of the strategic outcomes that ISIS is hoping to achieve with terror attacks is make the Western countries less tolerant and thus less appealing for Muslims.
__________________
"WHAT HAVE WE EVER DONE TO DESERVE THIS??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH US????" -Oiler Fan

"It was a debacle of monumental proportions." -MacT
Fozzie_DeBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2015, 08:15 PM   #46
Mr.Coffee
damn onions
 
Mr.Coffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Agree with Rouge, the infographic is more to put things in perspective, not marginalize the issue. Which quite frankly, probably many Americans need those stats / facts because the media sure doesn't help (put things in perspective).

If you watched the news every day and all they did was talk about being attacked by bears, you'd probably think there was an epidemic of people being attacked by bears all the time. So facts can be a good way to put things in perspective when the media can't.

Last edited by Mr.Coffee; 12-14-2015 at 08:17 PM.
Mr.Coffee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mr.Coffee For This Useful Post:
Old 12-15-2015, 08:12 AM   #47
sureLoss
Some kinda newsbreaker!
 
sureLoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Learning Phaneufs skating style
Exp:
Default

KTLA 5 Morning News
@KTLAMorningNews
#BREAKING: ALL @LASchools *closed* today over "credible terror threat." All students affected. We will carry LIVE news conference upcoming.

edit: Doesn't necesscarily appear to be terrorism. Just seems someone called in a bomb threat against a school board member.

Last edited by sureLoss; 12-15-2015 at 08:15 AM.
sureLoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 08:31 AM   #48
2Stonedbirds
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/12/...ential-target/
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
2Stonedbirds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 10:10 AM   #49
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Coalition of Muslim countries to combat terrorism. On one hand, it's about time, as one of the greatest criticisms of Islam is that that don't police their own effectively. On the other hand, I wish that someone other than Saudi Arabia was leading the charge here. The only government that I trust at all in that region, that is a part of the coalition, is maybe Turkey.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...coalition.html
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 10:35 AM   #50
undercoverbrother
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Coalition of Muslim countries to combat terrorism. On one hand, it's about time, as one of the greatest criticisms of Islam is that that don't police their own effectively. On the other hand, I wish that someone other than Saudi Arabia was leading the charge here. The only government that I trust at all in that region, that is a part of the coalition, is maybe Turkey.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...coalition.html
I was surpirsed at some of those countries.

Maldives?

Also, some of the countries can barley combat their own civil unrest.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993

Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver View Post
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
undercoverbrother is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 10:51 AM   #51
Senator Clay Davis
Franchise Player
 
Senator Clay Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss View Post
KTLA 5 Morning News
@KTLAMorningNews
#BREAKING: ALL @LASchools *closed* today over "credible terror threat." All students affected. We will carry LIVE news conference upcoming.

edit: Doesn't necesscarily appear to be terrorism. Just seems someone called in a bomb threat against a school board member.
LA officials apparently fell for a hoax

Quote:
The Associated Press ‏@AP 60m60 minutes ago
BREAKING: NYC officials say they received same threat that closed LA schools, concluded it was a hoax.
https://twitter.com/AP/status/676806139376508928
__________________
"Think I'm gonna be the scapegoat for the whole damn machine? Sheeee......."
Senator Clay Davis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 12:19 PM   #52
Harry Lime
Franchise Player
 
Harry Lime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by undercoverbrother View Post
I was surpirsed at some of those countries.
Maldives?
Also, some of the countries can barley combat their own civil unrest.
It will be interesting to see what they actually accomplish. Considering the member countries, there is a real worry that this is all lip service, and they will do virtually nothing. That will just exasperate the belief that they don't care to police people of their own religious faith.

In and around the ISIS controlled region, there are somewhere around 4.3 million soldiers currently under arms. ISIS can be stomped out quickly, if this coalition truly wants to act. I really hope that they impress me.
__________________
"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
Harry Lime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2015, 12:27 PM   #53
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Coalition of Muslim countries to combat terrorism. On one hand, it's about time, as one of the greatest criticisms of Islam is that that don't police their own effectively. On the other hand, I wish that someone other than Saudi Arabia was leading the charge here. The only government that I trust at all in that region, that is a part of the coalition, is maybe Turkey.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/20...coalition.html
Turkey and Saudi Arabia have both been actively funding terrorism. They're just upset that these groups have now, predictably, turned on them. This will merely be an excuse for many of these countries to squash political dissent. They'll both go after the groups that are out of line (Ex. ISIS), while providing support to the ones who are following the rules (Ex. Al Queda). This is essentially a way for the Saudis to strengthen their own proxy armies in their fight against Iran and the West.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 01:48 PM   #54
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

I originally posted this in the wrong thread...



This is a fantastic presentation of available pew data.

Although I would have preferred that they at least note that it's possible that there's a decent chunk of false positive data in any poll result on religious belief (people being more likely to respond in a manner suggesting they're more devout than they really are when push comes to shove), it's still very well done and extremely clear.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CorsiHockeyLeague For This Useful Post:
Old 12-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #55
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
I originally posted this in the wrong thread...



This is a fantastic presentation of available pew data.

Although I would have preferred that they at least note that it's possible that there's a decent chunk of false positive data in any poll result on religious belief (people being more likely to respond in a manner suggesting they're more devout than they really are when push comes to shove), it's still very well done and extremely clear.
I think people with more extreme views are also probably more likely to respond. It's the same conundrum you get with political polls.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 01:56 PM   #56
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube View Post
I think people with more extreme views are also probably more likely to respond. It's the same conundrum you get with political polls.
lol come on.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 02:45 PM   #57
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nik- View Post
lol come on.
Well, why is he wrong? I think it's likely true, intuitively, that you'll get more responses from people with strong viewpoints.

That being said, I would suggest that even if the error bars are relatively large - say, as high as ten percent - the most conservative adjusted numbers on those pew polls are still extremely concerning.

So, for example, if only 31% of British Muslims think suicide bombings are sometimes justifiable, or only 35% of Muslims worldwide think there are circumstances where women should be subjected to honour killings, that's still pretty horrific. Whether it's 27% of Muslims who support murdering apostates or 23% or 20%, there's a widespread problem; these can't be considered fringe beliefs.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 02:53 PM   #58
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague View Post
Well, why is he wrong? I think it's likely true, intuitively, that you'll get more responses from people with strong viewpoints.

That being said, I would suggest that even if the error bars are relatively large - say, as high as ten percent - the most conservative adjusted numbers on those pew polls are still extremely concerning.

So, for example, if only 31% of British Muslims think suicide bombings are sometimes justifiable, or only 35% of Muslims worldwide think there are circumstances where women should be subjected to honour killings, that's still pretty horrific. Whether it's 27% of Muslims who support murdering apostates or 23% or 20%, there's a widespread problem; these can't be considered fringe beliefs.
I can't watch the video at work, so it may be covered in there, but I'm wondering how the demographics break down in terms of if these beliefs are more heavily concentrated depending on geography, class, and religious sects.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 02:57 PM   #59
CorsiHockeyLeague
Franchise Player
 
CorsiHockeyLeague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Exp:
Default

Video doesn't go into that level of detail and is basically looking country by country. The bibliography is provided, though, if you wanted to comb through the numbers: http://www.clarionproject.org/sites/...bliography.pdf
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
CorsiHockeyLeague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2015, 03:01 PM   #60
nik-
Franchise Player
 
nik-'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Exp:
Default

This is the Pew report.

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/0...ull-report.pdf
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji View Post
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
nik- is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 PM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021