Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 05-16-2017, 03:05 PM   #41
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
So don't buy a house?
Actually true in Vancouver right now, its a stupid place to buy a house even if the price doesn't fall, told my daughter to move elsewhere, she's got a nice life in Halifax on 50,000 a year, I will probably retire out there in a few years as my crumbling ex grow op in East Van is worth 1,500,000.
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:05 PM   #42
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacopuck View Post
My mortgage payments are less than what my rent was prior, I own land and a home that was bigger than what I was renting, located in a central metropolitan area with a growing population in a first world country. Please tell me what I've done wrong.

Concepts like investment, hedging, good debt, bad debt, risk management, assets, depreciating assets, Retirement savings, debt to income ratio's are all things that need to be introduced at a young age.

Compound interest was the one thing the actually did teach in school but hey math is not useful in the real world right so it was ok for most people to ignore that class?
Nothing. You have done nothing wrong. I am just saying that buying a house doesn't always straight across make good sense as a financial decision.
peter12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:07 PM   #43
Hockeyguy15
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Exp:
Default

I think a bigger issue for millennials will be when it comes to retiring. I don't know a lot of friends that have a plan for retirement, so unless you have a work plan that forces you into putting some money away you are SOL.
Hockeyguy15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:09 PM   #44
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Nothing. You have done nothing wrong. I am just saying that buying a house doesn't always straight across make good sense as a financial decision.
Very true, it depends on your age, location and lifestyle, it makes almost no sense what so ever for most people to buy a house or plan on living in Vancouver right now. It is a city, like London when I was growing up forty years ago, that you move out of when you decide to settle down unless you are filthy rich
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:10 PM   #45
puckedoff
Powerplay Quarterback
 
puckedoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
The guy is right but also massively understates the financial climate we live in, in the 50's people lived in a small 2 or 3 bedroom house with 4 or 5 kids, they bunked three kids in one room parents in the main bedroom, they had one second hand car that they kept on the road for years, holidays consisted of driving to relatives who lived somewhere else and sleeping in a tent in the back yard dad worked, mum probably didn't and they spent almost no money beyond rent/mortgage and food.
Hey that sounds like my life!


Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
By todays standards that's utter destitute poverty.
Oh, .
puckedoff is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to puckedoff For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:10 PM   #46
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

EVERY generation starts off at the bottom. Today is no different than at any time in the past.

I think one thing that IS different though, is the continued urbanization of society. Home prices, for the most part, have risen roughly steadily with inflation and with wages. But home prices in larger cities have risen more with the scarcity of space.

If you want a house in Vancouver, you're going to have to pay up for it. If you want a cheaper home, you have to live where homes are cheaper.

We have to be careful about comparing the price of a home in Vancouver with the price of a home is Abbottsford. One is a fair comparison to 30 years ago, and one isn't.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:11 PM   #47
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
Actually true in Vancouver right now, its a stupid place to buy a house even if the price doesn't fall, told my daughter to move elsewhere, she's got a nice life in Halifax on 50,000 a year, I will probably retire out there in a few years as my crumbling ex grow op in East Van is worth 1,500,000.
Not really. No guarantee that there will be long-term growth, particularly if you see it as a long-term retirement investment starting now.

The gains a normal person sees from flipping houses is pretty negligible unless you are very, very lucky, and most of those gains have already occured, and been gobbled up by you Boomers.
peter12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:11 PM   #48
kunkstyle
Franchise Player
 
kunkstyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
I assume they don't live in Victoria, as if they do this is a lousy example.
Unless she means Victoria, Australia it's a lousy example. A long weekend in city within a day's drive is hardly lavish or absurd.
kunkstyle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kunkstyle For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:12 PM   #49
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
EVERY generation starts off at the bottom. Today is no different than at any time in the past.

I think one thing that IS different though, is the continued urbanization of society. Home prices, for the most part, have risen roughly steadily with inflation and with wages. But home prices in larger cities have risen more with the scarcity of space.

If you want a house in Vancouver, you're going to have to pay up for it. If you want a cheaper home, you have to live where homes are cheaper.

We have to be careful about comparing the price of a home in Vancouver with the price of a home is Abbottsford. One is a fair comparison to 30 years ago, and one isn't.
The issue today is that "bottom" time period you are talking about is now extending into people's 30s and 40s.

The issue is massive foreign investment and poor government planning. Houses in places like Coquitlam are going for well over a 1 million.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:14 PM   #50
Tacopuck
Scoring Winger
 
Tacopuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
The issue is that everyone in the younger generation is expected to take a huge step back.

If you are a hard worker, good saver, and find a big income, you should be able to do quite well with that 30 years ago, but will now find yourself at the bottom.

Once again, we aren't talking about people in their early 20s, who spend too much, not being able to afford basic housing. We're talking about people in their late 30s, who've spent a decade working. Do the simple math. If you're a teacher, a nurse, or fireman, making $65k/year. How much can you realistically save after taxes? Now compare that to the average home price in various neighbourhoods.

Even if you never had a coffee in your life...although the concept of a middle class person not getting a morning coffee is something new....I can assure you coffee shops, diners, etc... existed well before this generation and were always well populated.
I'd argue the younger generation just expects more. What kid doesn't have a a smart phone? This is not an argument of not having a smart phone as the value it provides is way higher than the cost of it, but with the amount of 'stuff' everyone has access to (ie $500 blender on a payment plan) its real easy for young people to say "fudge it! YOLO!" and buy one more item that they dont need and slowly incrementally diminish their investing potential and therefore diminish their wealth potential.

I dont buy the people in their 30's argument. If this is only becoming an issue in the last bit what's their excuse when they were in their 20's? Albeit I'm not in my 30's yet and didn't try and buy a house a decade ago, but i do recall prices being significantly lower.

Time value of money is real, the earlier you start the process of wealth growth the better your will be off later, this comes down to choices of the individual plain and simple.
__________________
Purveyor of fine Sarcasm
Tacopuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:15 PM   #51
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
The issue is that everyone in the younger generation is expected to take a huge step back.

If you are a hard worker, good saver, and find a big income, you should be able to do quite well with that 30 years ago, but will now find yourself at the bottom.

Once again, we aren't talking about people in their early 20s, who spend too much, not being able to afford basic housing. We're talking about people in their late 30s, who've spent a decade working. Do the simple math. If you're a teacher, a nurse, or fireman, making $65k/year. How much can you realistically save after taxes? Now compare that to the average home price in various neighbourhoods.

Even if you never had a coffee in your life...although the concept of a middle class person not getting a morning coffee is something new....I can assure you coffee shops, diners, etc... existed well before this generation and were always well populated.
You seem to blame everything on Boomers.

There absolutely were NOT coffee shops in the 60s and 70s. Diners? Sure. But the idea of spending $4 (in today's terms) for a coffee would have been obscene and highly ridiculed back then.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Enoch Root For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:17 PM   #52
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
EVERY generation starts off at the bottom. Today is no different than at any time in the past.

I think one thing that IS different though, is the continued urbanization of society. Home prices, for the most part, have risen roughly steadily with inflation and with wages. But home prices in larger cities have risen more with the scarcity of space.

If you want a house in Vancouver, you're going to have to pay up for it. If you want a cheaper home, you have to live where homes are cheaper.

We have to be careful about comparing the price of a home in Vancouver with the price of a home is Abbottsford. One is a fair comparison to 30 years ago, and one isn't.
I bought my first house in the Lower Mainland in Port Coquitlam in the late eighties, 4 bedroom old timer on 1/4 acre for 75,000.
At that time Poco was the boonies, the house was a piece of crap, basement leaked like a sieve, the wife hated me for it right up until the real estate guy came by next year and offered us double for ours to go with the half acre he had bought next door.

You can still buy a tar paper shack out in Mission for 150,000 and 70's townhome for 200,000

I bought my currant house in Vancouver for 250,000 in 2000, that was a stupid price for an ex grow op in east Van in my mind but it was the cheapest I could find that fulfilled my needs at the time. It was (and is) a terrible house that I've worked on over the years.
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:17 PM   #53
Enoch Root
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: May 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
The issue today is that "bottom" time period you are talking about is now extending into people's 30s and 40s.

The issue is massive foreign investment and poor government planning. Houses in places like Coquitlam are going for well over a 1 million.
As it did then. As it always has.
Enoch Root is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:18 PM   #54
Bill Bumface
My face is a bum!
 
Bill Bumface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Exp:
Default

My family seemed to be pretty run-of-the-mill middle class growing up.

-My parents rented until their 30s. Everyone thinks they "deserve" to own a home right out of school
-As a family, we took two flights for vacation during the time we lived at home. It seems air travel on an annual basis is now "deserved"
-We had 2 new cars ever, with a lot of beaters in between, besides when my dad got cars for work. Not new Mercedes leased every couple years. The amount of 20 year olds driving luxury cars is nuts.
-I shared a cell phone with my mom
-I was on the hook to pay for my own school
-Dinners out were every couple of months, not every week

My friend's families all seemed roughly similar.

This isn't that long ago.

To me, it seems the standard of living has never been higher. Just as my parents had way less as kids than we did.

The whining may have increased a bit however. Everyone "deserves" everything now.
Bill Bumface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:18 PM   #55
peter12
Franchise Player
 
peter12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Exp:
Default

Doesn't anybody really believe the preachy nonsense they are saying?

It is absolutely undeniable that things are harder for the under 35 generation. Wages have stagnated since the 1970s, home prices and rents are much higher...
peter12 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to peter12 For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:19 PM   #56
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacopuck View Post
I'd argue the younger generation just expects more. What kid doesn't have a a smart phone? This is not an argument of not having a smart phone as the value it provides is way higher than the cost of it, but with the amount of 'stuff' everyone has access to (ie $500 blender on a payment plan) its real easy for young people to say "fudge it! YOLO!" and buy one more item that they dont need and slowly incrementally diminish their investing potential and therefore diminish their wealth potential.

I dont buy the people in their 30's argument. If this is only becoming an issue in the last bit what's their excuse when they were in their 20's? Albeit I'm not in my 30's yet and didn't try and buy a house a decade ago, but i do recall prices being significantly lower.

Time value of money is real, the earlier you start the process of wealth growth the better your will be off later, this comes down to choices of the individual plain and simple.
There have always been people who are good with money and people who are bad with it. Yes, you see more smart phones now, but a generation ago you had people buying corvettes they couldn't afford. Before that you had people with decade long leases on colour televisions.

The difference is that currently, property prices and living expenses are far higher than wages.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:19 PM   #57
Tacopuck
Scoring Winger
 
Tacopuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12 View Post
Nothing. You have done nothing wrong. I am just saying that buying a house doesn't always straight across make good sense as a financial decision.
True, but more often than not investing in the housing market yields a positive return when the considering the long term. Sure there are housing bubbles and corrections but these are "noise" and not the long term trend of housing.
__________________
Purveyor of fine Sarcasm
Tacopuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 03:21 PM   #58
blankall
Ate 100 Treadmills
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
You seem to blame everything on Boomers.

There absolutely were NOT coffee shops in the 60s and 70s. Diners? Sure. But the idea of spending $4 (in today's terms) for a coffee would have been obscene and highly ridiculed back then.
Interesting that you use coffee as an example:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/money-care...tml/?a=viewall

Shows that the price of coffee is about 5x higher than it was now. However, inflation is about 6.43 times higher:

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/rel...on-calculator/

So the cost of a coffee has actually gone down relative to wages. So baby boomers were paying more for their coffee than people are now.
blankall is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to blankall For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:24 PM   #59
afc wimbledon
Franchise Player
 
afc wimbledon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
There have always been people who are good with money and people who are bad with it. Yes, you see more smart phones now, but a generation ago you had people buying corvettes they couldn't afford. Before that you had people with decade long leases on colour televisions.

The difference is that currently, property prices and living expenses are far higher than wages.
We also lend absurd amounts of money to morons now in a way we never would have even twenty years ago.

My father (a financial dofus of Homer Simpsons like proportions) would have to crawl on bended knee across the bank managers door while chanting 'verily I am an idiot of the highest order' in order to get a small overdraft.
afc wimbledon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to afc wimbledon For This Useful Post:
Old 05-16-2017, 03:26 PM   #60
rubecube
Franchise Player
 
rubecube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Victoria
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacopuck View Post
I'm a millennial and I was able to purchase my first home at 26 and I attribute that directly to my parents teaching me the concepts of investing my money that I make through a paycheque when I was in high school.l
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarley View Post
I'm lucky in that I've been interested in investing since junior high and I love reading and learning more about the topic.
How much of this do you think has to do with your upbringing though? If I had to guess, I'd bet that both of you grew up in houses where saving was actually an option for your parents. Also did you grow up in households with two parents? Because that makes a huge difference as well.
rubecube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rubecube For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:30 PM.

Calgary Flames
2016-17




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016