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Old 11-02-2015, 06:38 PM   #41
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I'd rather see them take a step back in time to the end of TOS and follow a completely different ship/crew. Back when the tech was simpler and the universe was still a new frontier, and they can focus on characters over the special effects of the week.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:56 PM   #42
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DS9 ended 16 years ago, you've got nearly a generation of TV watchers that would have no idea what it was, I don't think you could do that if you're launching a new series. Or at least you can't tightly tie it to DS9.
I found that so unbelievable I had to look it up.
Getting old.


My theory is they jump forward in time to when Nero and Spock traveled back from at the start of the first Rebot installment. Not focusing on the Spock, Nero, or the Romulan crisis specifically, but those background concepts can ground the series in existing mythology. Just existing at that later point in them so they can roll out new more advanced tech concepts.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:09 PM   #43
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Stephen Fry explains perfectly what made Star Trek (TOS) special in 3 minutes.

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Old 11-03-2015, 03:49 AM   #44
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TNG was held together by Patrick Stewart single-handedly.

But the love in for DS9 is insane. It's Star Trek: 90210.

Starring:

Commander/Captain Miles Davis
Bajoran Worf Female
Grumpy Liquid Data
Dr. Dougie Howser
A Dirty Old Man In A Hot Young Woman
Cheif O'Fired from the Enterprise
and
Black Wesley Crusher

TNG may be corny, but some of the stories were outstanding. DS9 is like Coronation Street in space.

Props to CC for the Girl From Ipanema reference.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:44 AM   #45
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TNG may be corny, but some of the stories were outstanding. DS9 is like Coronation Street in space.
I think that was the biggest issue, was the 7 part episodes. Most TOS, TNG, and Voyager episodes could be watched and enjoyed out of sequence. Sure, there were a few two- part episodes. And there was some ongoing character development. But if you had only watched seasons 1-3, you could pick up in the middle of season 5 and not be hopelessly lost.
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Old 11-03-2015, 07:58 AM   #46
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OTOH, I think that is what made DS9 great. Pretty much every episode of TNG might have been held in alternate universes as there was nothing that carried over from one episode to the next. There were no lasting consequences, and that stifled any real effort at world building. The one notable exception was the ongoing Klingon civil war arc.

Starting with season 4, DS9 changed up the formula - the series got a lot darker, and instead of trying to present a utopian vision of the future where humanity sought to bring light to the universe that Star Trek was otherwise known for, DS9 looked at our darker side What we do in war and the ongoing impacts of our actions. As a result, it needed to become a serial. You just can't tell that story when actions in one episode have no impact on the next.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:32 AM   #47
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Once you got to the point in the DS9 series where for the first time in any Star Trek series you felt that human existance was really threatened. You never got that in TNG even when they had the Borg, you never felt that true impending sense of doom, because you knew that the Enterprise crew would find a way to high tech blather their way out of it.

There was none of that in DS9, right up until about 3/4 of the way through the last season there was a very real chance that they were going to lose the war. There was also a very real chance that even if they won the war, that humanity might end up being forever and negatively changed to something worse then the dominion.

Martial Law on earth, super secret sections of Federation intelligence, even good men doing bad things like Sisco and the romulans.

But in the middle of this horrible war there were these brilliant little episodes with great heart and feelings. I remember the episode where they played the baseball game against the Vulcans, I loved that episode. The episode where Jake and Sisco built the solar sailor was a great little episode too, and that beneath what was becoming a grimy galaxy with a win at all costs mentality that the best of mankind hadn't been totally extinguished.

I always felt the reverse with TNG, in that man almost didn't have a darker nature to fight anymore, and that there was no man against himself or man against man conflict.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:33 AM   #48
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So is it OK to start DS9 at season 4? When it was originally on I watched a few seasons and never really liked the characters much, so stopped watching. If it is more interesting story wise after season 4 I'd give it a try again, but I'm not sure I would want to slog through the first few seasons, remembering little bits of what I didn't like.
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:48 AM   #49
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Yeah, it really picked up in season 4, before that they just took a long time to establish characters. There were some interesting plot lines throughout the first four season, but frankly the problem was that a lot of the characters were pretty wooden. Sisco really didn't find his own til he got rid of his hair
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Old 11-03-2015, 09:51 AM   #50
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OK, I think I may have just got started on season 4 years ago, as he had no hair and the war was underway. Problem was back then I wasn't able to watch it regularly which meant losing track fo the story and losing interest. I'll give season 4 a try, thanks.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:06 AM   #51
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OK, I think I may have just got started on season 4 years ago, as he had no hair and the war was underway. Problem was back then I wasn't able to watch it regularly which meant losing track fo the story and losing interest. I'll give season 4 a try, thanks.
You should be starting in season 3 with the two-parter, the Search. That's the introduction to the search for the Founders and the shocking revelation that they are
Spoiler!
and their genetically engineered enforcers, the Jem H'ddar.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:07 AM   #52
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OK, thanks!
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:13 AM   #53
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You should be starting in season 3 with the two-parter, the Search. That's the introduction to the search for the Founders and the shocking revelation that they are
Spoiler!
and their genetically engineered enforcers, the Jem H'ddar.
I think that was the one

Spoiler!
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:31 AM   #54
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Sorry wrong episode, that happened in an earlier episode called the Jem'hadar
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:52 AM   #55
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I always felt the reverse with TNG, in that man almost didn't have a darker nature to fight anymore, and that there was no man against himself or man against man conflict.
I'm guessing you don't like this portrayal because it's harder for us to relate to (and as an elementary schooler it's not something I thought particularly hard about at the time anyways cause I just wanted phasers hitting shields). but is it all that unrealistic a projection of humanity in the far future? think about meeting someone from the 1600's and how confused they would be by your insistence that women and minorities are equals, and that an argument with your neighbor does not in fact have to end in one of you scooping the other person's eyeball out with your bare hands?

with the way change keeps accelerating exponentially in our history, I'd like to think that the average 24th century human is a hell of a lot more enlightened than any of us. maybe that doesn't make for great TV in some people's eyes, but that just means the writers have to be more creative with the obstacles that these advanced species face as well, to keep things compelling.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:03 AM   #56
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I think we're heading towards the stopping point in terms of the whole enlightenment argument that Roddenberry had. In the face of being able to magically replicate raw materials, that mankind is going to become more and more resources driven, and at some point, there will be a greed based infrastructure, where we end up stepping back to the stone age, and all grudges will be satisfied.

I also think as the world gets smaller and smaller due to information sharing and personal communications, that man will eventually become more socially inept.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:06 AM   #57
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Sorry wrong episode, that happened in an earlier episode called the Jem'hadar
You're right. That's the episode he should be starting with. You could easily imagine the Odyssey being the Enterprise and that was the point, that this threat was much worse than anything ever seen in TNG.

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Old 11-03-2015, 11:11 AM   #58
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I'm guessing you don't like this portrayal because it's harder for us to relate to (and as an elementary schooler it's not something I thought particularly hard about at the time anyways cause I just wanted phasers hitting shields). but is it all that unrealistic a projection of humanity in the far future? think about meeting someone from the 1600's and how confused they would be by your insistence that women and minorities are equals, and that an argument with your neighbor does not in fact have to end in one of you scooping the other person's eyeball out with your bare hands?

with the way change keeps accelerating exponentially in our history, I'd like to think that the average 24th century human is a hell of a lot more enlightened than any of us. maybe that doesn't make for great TV in some people's eyes, but that just means the writers have to be more creative with the obstacles that these advanced species face as well, to keep things compelling.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:16 AM   #59
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You're right. That's the episode he should be starting with. You could easily imagine the Odyssey being the Enterprise and that was the point, that this threat was much worse than anything ever seen in TNG.
Which, I believe, is exactly what the writers were going for.
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Old 11-03-2015, 11:17 AM   #60
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A Star Trek reboot in the model of TNG or DS9 would be great if they made it a 10 or 12 episode /season series. I would rather see bigger budgets and less quantity, and I think more TV audiences expect that these days.

Low-budget space dramas just won't cut it these days.
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