So I've got my final walk through with my builder this week..

[ken0042]

Then why don't foundation walls crack when they cure? Or why were there no cracks in my previous house's basement; nor in my current (still new) house's basement?

It just comes across as something that could be done better, but we are told to accept substandard.

It's the "bah- good enough" argument that bugs me. I saw it far too often during the build process. There were a lot of good trades, and some great trades. But a handful of ones with that attitude stand out.

[keratosis]

Foundation walls do crack.
Look closely, cracks will be most noticeable at the top were there is less compression from the weight while curing.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Because concrete cracks. Not sure why this bugs you so much. It has nothing to do with the ground shifting, it's because concrete is cement, gravel, and water mixed together, and as it cures, it shrinks. The water evaporates. The only reason you don't see every driveway and sidewalk full of cracks is because they cut joints into them. Nobody does that for basements because it's either going unfinished, so who cares, or else it's going to be finished, so it'll be covered up.

Does it bother you that there are a whole bunch of top and bottom plates that are cut all to hell in your walls? We had to run the HVAC and plumbing through somewhere, so the ones that aren't structural, are hacked right up. But it's covered with drywall now, and the paint is nice, so does it bother you? Some underlay and carpet will cover those basement cracks right up. Or else some concrete silicone and floor paint.

Re-reading before I post, I'm not sure if I sound like a dick. I don't mean to. I'm trying to figure out why you care about it, when it's just the way it is, in every single basement in the city.

Why does it bother me? It's a potential health risk.

It bothers me because the second leading cause of lung cancer and the leading cause of lung cancer in non smokers is because of radon gas. 16% of lung cancer cases in canada are due to radon. It seeps into the basement of your home through cracks in your foundation. It happens just about everywhere in varying degrees.

Is it something to freak out about. No, but it is something to consider.

If i can have a foundation free of cracks then good, saves me from having to fill them.

Doesn't hurt to get a kit once in a while to do a quick test in the basement if you spend a lot of time down there.

Personally, i think it should be considered by Alberta's new home warranty program.

http://www.basementquestions.com/radon.php

From the canadian homebuilders association:

Radon is a radioactive gas naturally emitted from the earth through the breakdown of uranium in the soil. It enters a home by seeping in through cracks and penetrations through foundations and is the second leading cause of lung cancer in Canada.

http://www.chbacalgary.com/post/2259...don-gas-update

[4X4]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Then why don't foundation walls crack when they cure? Or why were there no cracks in my previous house's basement; nor in my current (still new) house's basement?

It just comes across as something that could be done better, but we are told to accept substandard.

It's the "bah- good enough" argument that bugs me. I saw it far too often during the build process. There were a lot of good trades, and some great trades. But a handful of ones with that attitude stand out.

It's not a 'bah-good enough' attitude. It's an industry norm attitude. If you have no cracks in your basement, then the cracks are under the stairwell plates. If there are really no cracks, then awesome. It doesn't make your house worth any more than your neighbour, who has a crack from the corner of his furnace, to his 3 piece rough in. It's not a corner that is cut. If it was cutting corners, then one of the builders would have tried using it as a "quality" selling feature by now. The City would have added it to building code. It's like having knot holes in your studs. lol.

And the reason there are no cracks in your foundation walls is because they're poured inside forms, with rebar, and the forms are stripped about a day later, leaving both sides open to air. Much different than pouring a slab.

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Why does it bother me? It's a potential health risk.

It bothers me because the second leading cause of lung cancer and the leading cause of lung cancer in non smokers is because of radon gas. 16% of lung cancer cases in canada are due to radon. It seeps into the basement of your home through cracks in your foundation. It happens just about everywhere in varying degrees.

Is it something to freak out about. No, but it is something to consider.

If i can have a foundation free of cracks then good, saves me from having to fill them.

Doesn't hurt to get a kit once in a while to do a quick test in the basement if you spend a lot of time down there.

Personally, i think it should be considered by Alberta's new home warranty program.

http://www.basementquestions.com/radon.php

From the canadian homebuilders association:

Radon is a radioactive gas naturally emitted from the earth through the breakdown of uranium in the soil. It enters a home by seeping in through cracks and penetrations through foundations and is the second leading cause of lung cancer in Canada.

http://www.chbacalgary.com/post/2259...don-gas-update

Check out what they use to make OSB, if you're concerned about your health. There's way more OSB in your house than concrete (and therefore, radon emitting cracks).

Like you said, filling the cracks is easy. I do it whenever someone asks. Some people care, some people don't. The point is, cracked concrete is neither a deficiency, nor a sign of "bah-good enough".

[calgaryblood]

I do work in custom built homes in Aspen worth millions and I have yet to see a house with no cracks or that does not settle in even a couple years later. I know for a fact the builder hires the best tradesmen but there is really nothing you can do about houses that settle in and in turn cracks the concrete. I sometimes dap houses and a few weeks later I have to dap a bunch of other areas including the ceiling again because the house has sunk a little bit.

New homes are constantly moving and shifting for a while until they finally settle. I've been in the business for 12 years and have done hundreds, if not thousands of houses, and in 99% of the new homes the concrete is cracked.

[jeffh]

If you are concerned with radon gas entering your home, you shouldn't rely on the concrete slab and walls preventing it from seeping in. Poly laid under the slab will do far more to prevent it from entering. Simple thing to help would be to have your basement bath fan turned on periodically throughout the day.
I have worked on a few jobs where the contractor laid an entire rubber-like membrane under the entire building and ran separate stacks right to the roof to vent the gases(methane, radon, etc) out

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I know for a fact the builder hires the best tradesmen but there is really nothing you can do about houses that settle in and in turn cracks the concrete.

Once again, I don't have an issue with the house settling and eventually causing a crack. My issue is with a brand new house with concrete only a few weeks old already having cracks going the whole length of the floor. And those cracks being considered acceptable. To me that isn't a sign of the settling; more of a poor prep job.

Especially in a basement where the concrete was not exposed to the elements when it cured.

[GreenLantern]

I've seen a few of those trades so far with our house as well ken, it really is frustrating. One trade will come in and just do a great job, taking pride in his work, then the next one comes in and slaps something up against it and just really takes away from the quality. Had this problem with our finisher doing a great job on the trim and baseboards and the painter leaving brush streaks all over the place. That's something I will have to bring up during the walk through.

[Peanut]

If you can fit a key into a crack into the foundation, that could signify a problem. Otherwise, yeah, concrete cracks. It's the nature of concrete as a material.

Also, I would wholly recommend not paying for a home inspector. This is obviously just my opinion but I would argue they are largely useless if you have any knowledge about home construction whatsoever. What qualifications are even required in order to become a home inspector? And the inspection reports they give you are full of CYA statements about everything anyways, so that in case there was a problem they didn't identify or that crops up later, they aren't liable.

Buying a 100 year old home and you have no idea what you're doing, ok, maybe look for a highly recommended and knowledgeable home inspector. Buy on a brand new home?! Save your $500 for furniture or your window coverings or whatever.

[Poe969]

I wouldn't do a home inspection on a new home but if you had a builder build you a new home, do your walk through and be as thorough as possible.

I worked with concrete for most of my life and as some have said, it does crack. The main thing is the size and location. Cracks in concrete are one of those things that you have to see in order to know if it's an issue. Some cracks can look terrible and be nothing at all while some could look minor and cause a world of headaches. If you're just doing a walk through with a builder, take lots of pictures as everyone says and after the walk through, tell him you'll need a day or so to go over things before signing off on everything, that way you can go over things in detail and ask someone knowledgeable about things if you have to.

[Poe969]

GL, I just wish you the best of luck with this. I'm sure things are going to be great and there won't be any huge issues at all but it's great that you're being prepared. I just hope the new home has a man cave.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Because concrete cracks. Not sure why this bugs you so much. It has nothing to do with the ground shifting, it's because concrete is cement, gravel, and water mixed together, and as it cures, it shrinks. The water evaporates. The only reason you don't see every driveway and sidewalk full of cracks is because they cut joints into them. Nobody does that for basements because it's either going unfinished, so who cares, or else it's going to be finished, so it'll be covered up.

Does it bother you that there are a whole bunch of top and bottom plates that are cut all to hell in your walls? We had to run the HVAC and plumbing through somewhere, so the ones that aren't structural, are hacked right up. But it's covered with drywall now, and the paint is nice, so does it bother you? Some underlay and carpet will cover those basement cracks right up. Or else some concrete silicone and floor paint.

Re-reading before I post, I'm not sure if I sound like a dick. I don't mean to. I'm trying to figure out why you care about it, when it's just the way it is, in every single basement in the city.

4x4 is Tom Hardy in Locke.

[GreenLantern]

The man cave is in the garage since the basement will be rented out.. I have a heater going in so I can hang my TV and Johnny jersey to watch Flames games. Sorry I meant the Car Hole.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Peanut

If you can fit a key into a crack into the foundation, that could signify a problem. Otherwise, yeah, concrete cracks. It's the nature of concrete as a material.

Also, I would wholly recommend not paying for a home inspector. This is obviously just my opinion but I would argue they are largely useless if you have any knowledge about home construction whatsoever. What qualifications are even required in order to become a home inspector? And the inspection reports they give you are full of CYA statements about everything anyways, so that in case there was a problem they didn't identify or that crops up later, they aren't liable.

Buying a 100 year old home and you have no idea what you're doing, ok, maybe look for a highly recommended and knowledgeable home inspector. Buy on a brand new home?! Save your $500 for furniture or your window coverings or whatever.

Sorry but this is some terrible advice. You're making a $500,000+ purchase and you want to save $500 on one of the most important aspects of buying a home?

Believe me, there are some real bad tradesmen out there who should not even be working, and are. And companies who like to cut corners and save money hire them. I don't care how handy you are, you will not find the same things a home inspector will find.

Just because your house is brand new does not mean it was built by people who knew what they were doing.

A home inspection can save you thousands of dollars down the road and a lot of headache. Sure most times you will get the report back and there will be no glaring problems, but it's a pretty small price to pay when you're talking about such a massive purchase.

[4X4]

^ Your advice isn't much better, unless you know the home inspector you hired knows anything at all. Anyone can be a home inspector. You can. I can. Just open up a home inspecting company. "Hey, well your lights work, and the shingles look good... But oooh! what's this? There's RADON seeping through that totally normal crack in the concrete floor!"

[calgaryblood]

Well obviously you need to do your homework. Your realtor can always recommend a good home inspector and you can do your research and find someone good and who has taken the home inspection course.
But to simply dismiss a home inspection because you might pay for it and they'll find nothing? That is a bad idea. We pay for insurance all the time and don't end up needing it. This is a different form of insurance and relatively cheap in my opinion if you find someone with experience and who actually knows their stuff.
Just like there are a tonne of builders who don't know what they're doing, there are also a lot of home inspectors who don't either but it's on you to find the one that is best.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The man cave is in the garage since the basement will be rented out.. I have a heater going in so I can hang my TV and Johnny jersey to watch Flames games. Sorry I meant the Car Hole.

One small piece of advice with the TV in the garage, double check to make sure it can withstand cold temperatures. I bought an LED for that reason, and I was told LCD TV's will crack. You don't want to be relying on your heater to make sure your TV works .

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Peanut

If you can fit a key into a crack into the foundation, that could signify a problem. Otherwise, yeah, concrete cracks. It's the nature of concrete as a material.

Also, I would wholly recommend not paying for a home inspector. This is obviously just my opinion but I would argue they are largely useless if you have any knowledge about home construction whatsoever. What qualifications are even required in order to become a home inspector? And the inspection reports they give you are full of CYA statements about everything anyways, so that in case there was a problem they didn't identify or that crops up later, they aren't liable.

Buying a 100 year old home and you have no idea what you're doing, ok, maybe look for a highly recommended and knowledgeable home inspector. Buy on a brand new home?! Save your $500 for furniture or your window coverings or whatever.

Maybe so but inspectors have insurance. The less qualified the better in my opinion. They usually have great errors and omissions coverage. You absolutely need an inspection, even in a new house.

Also, if they do come to fill a crack in the floor, make sure you are there to watch. I came home and honest to god had a speed bump running the whole length of the basement floor.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by 4X4

As a guy in this industry, I don't understand why a builder would even bother trying to sneak by on things. It's a new house. Whether it's a starter or a custom, it's got to look new. There are tolerances for certain things, like the aforementioned wavy walls. 1/4" over 8' I think. It's a man made product, so it's not going to be laser perfect, but you can't turn over a new house with a bowed stud in the living room that causes an obvious bulge in the wall.

My advice for your walk through is not to over do it. A walk through should take about 2 hours, and you're not going to hold a camcorder for that long. Paint touch ups will get tagged, and deficiencies will get noted on the report. That's where you want to make sure you're being diligent. Make sure that everything you're not satisfied with is noted on the walk through report. That's what you're going to refer to at possession.

I just don't get some of the problems I've heard about on the interwebs. I've turned over hundreds of houses, and I've only had about 5 buyers that were full on crazy. Those people will never be happy, so they can go ahead and talk to Alberta New Home Warranty, who will agree with what I already said. If it's wrong, it'll get fixed. If it's not wrong, then you're wrong. But for the most part, people are generally pretty reasonable about what's good and what's not good. In other words, trust your instinct. If it looks wrong, point it out. If the explanation makes sense, then you have your answer. If the explanation sounds like a bunch of BS, then they might be trying to weasel out of fixing something. But I just don't see why any builder would do that.

For the record, cracks in the basement concrete floor are normal. They're in every basement in Calgary. A crack in a foundation wall (especially a horizontal one) is a different story.

Edit to clarify that I work for a builder. I'm not purporting to have "turned over hundreds of houses" as the owner of a building company.

As someone who also workers in the industry, in my opinion the builders and designers are almost always the problem. We have dealt with 3-4 unreasonable home owners but for the most part they are never a problem to work with.

Most issues with a home build stem from designers who have no clue how the actual 'build' works, i.e. they don't know how to frame a wall, to the builders not being able to schedule stuff properly. In other words if you're still painting, the cabinets should not be delivered or installed. Who will pay for the damages to the cabinet doors when they are properly covered by painters who got lazy? From there everything snowballs.

Home owners who are proactive in the build of their home and demand to talk to the actually people MAKING the product; such as the cabinet manufacturer, flooring guy, painter, etc, etc.....they will have the least amount of issues because their message is being conveyed properly. As a home owner if you leave that to the project manager, good luck. Unless he is superman, chances are he'll screw up.

Good home builders get the customer involved from the start and make sure they have face to face meetings and sitdowns with everyone involved in their home build. That means a sit down with the electrician to talk about how they want their home theatre room wired up, or if they want Cat6 in every room, etc, etc. It means sitting down and talking about the cabinets, and what they expect, and how different designs affect the price point. Do that from the start and you'll have a much more satisfying result.

As for the walk through, write everything down and be reasonable. The issues aren't a big problem if everything is recorded and dealt with. Having to get the different trades in time and time again to fix problems because the project manager keeps forgetting about the different issues is a huge hassle.

[Drummer]

Originally Posted by 4X4

^ Your advice isn't much better, unless you know the home inspector you hired knows anything at all. Anyone can be a home inspector. You can. I can. Just open up a home inspecting company. "Hey, well your lights work, and the shingles look good... But oooh! what's this? There's RADON seeping through that totally normal crack in the concrete floor!"

Actually the Alberta Government requires all home inspectors to be licensed:
http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/1773.cfm