American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

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Originally Posted by peter12

This wedge between Europe and the United States has been growing for a very long time.

Well yes, I did say Trump was taking a whack at the wedge, not creating a new one.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

The Germans and the Americans have never been natural allies.

Just since the end of WWII. Also, what constitutes a natural ally? The United States were really isolationists until the end of WWII. They have never had strong alliances with anyone.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

Just since the end of WWII. Also, what constitutes a natural ally? The United States were really isolationists until the end of WWII. They have never had strong alliances with anyone.

France (their oldest) and Britain (their closest).

For much of the 1960s to 1980s, NATO was seen, both within Germany and without, as a means to kind of keep Germany down.

Anyway, this is all much ado about nothing. Germany has wanted to push forward with European integration for some time, but as everyone knows, the Germans would be foolish to actually sever any strong connection to the United States.

[peter12]

And just to add to my skepticism to all this nonsense, this is hardly the LOWEST point in German-American relations in the last 15 years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

I disagree. Your first and last sentence contradicted each other.

No, they don't. There are other nations that more than willing to pull away from the United States, and have already done so. Do you think the TPP was completely shelved because Trump elected to pull out? Nope. Other nations went their own way. Do you think the Paris Accord is going to crumble because Trump is a child? Doubtful. The other nations will continue to move forward because they know its the right thing to do. No contradiction.

If Germany is looking to pull away from the Anglo orbit, then whose alliance is it looking to join other than one led by Germany.

This isn't just about Germany. This is about the United States and the hits the country will begin to take. A lot of nations took a lot of #### and abuse from the US because it was the largest consumer market in the world and was a good trade partner. Trump is making both of those things of the past. The luster is coming off the United States in a big way, and a lot of it has to do with the failure of the middle class and the loss of purchasing power by the majority of Americans. The United States is failing, and Trump is fiddling while it burns. You'll excuse other countries from stepping away from the flames.

[peter12]

No, they don't. There are other nations that more than willing to pull away from the United States, and have already done so. Do you think the TPP was completely shelved because Trump elected to pull out? Nope. Other nations went their own way. Do you think the Paris Accord is going to crumble because Trump is a child? Doubtful. The other nations will continue to move forward because they know its the right thing to do. No contradiction.

It's childish fantasy to assume that a new global consensus will emerge without the United States as leader.

This isn't just about Germany. This is about the United States and the hits the country will begin to take. A lot of nations took a lot of #### and abuse from the US because it was the largest consumer market in the world and was a good trade partner. Trump is making both of those things of the past. The luster is coming off the United States in a big way, and a lot of it has to do with the failure of the middle class and the loss of purchasing power by the majority of Americans. The United States is failing, and Trump is fiddling while it burns. You'll excuse other countries from stepping away from the flames.

Ok.

[jammies]

Trump: belligerent to his allies, friendly with his biggest enemy. At least the cuts to the State Department were well-thought out, he realized he wouldn't need the skillful use of soft power because he was going to waste it all on yelling at Volkswagen

[Senator Clay Davis]

My favorite part of the trip was trashing German cars. President Numbnuts apparently was blissfully unaware that

BMW's largest plant in the entire world is in South Carolina (Trump country)
BMW is also the largest exporter of vehicles made in the US (lol....yup)
Mercedes has a massive plant in Alabama (Trump country...)
Volkswagen has a massive plant in Tennessee (Trump cou....you get the point)

This trip simply reinforced he's exceptionally ignorant, and generally speaking only listens to the last person he spoke to. Which helps explain his lack of understanding of the EU trade block, something Gary Cohn, likely the last person he spoke to before spewing it at NATO, likewise knew nothing about until they had to tell them like 15 times (and they still don't get it, at least I don't think they do).

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

France (their oldest) and Britain (their closest).

And yet, when both were attacked in back-to-back wars, the Americans did nothing. Yeah, real tight allies.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

And yet, when both were attacked in back-to-back wars, the Americans did nothing. Yeah, real tight allies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

I'd be interested how you would characterize "something."

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

My favorite part of the trip was trashing German cars. President Numbnuts apparently was blissfully unaware that

BMW's largest plant in the entire world is in South Carolina (Trump country)
BMW is also the largest exporter of vehicles made in the US (lol....yup)
Mercedes has a massive plant in Alabama (Trump country...)
Volkswagen has a massive plant in Tennessee (Trump cou....you get the point)

This trip simply reinforced he's exceptionally ignorant, and generally speaking only listens to the last person he spoke to. Which helps explain his lack of understanding of the EU trade block, something Gary Cohn, likely the last person he spoke to before spewing it at NATO, likewise knew nothing about until they had to tell them like 15 times (and they still don't get it I don't think).

I think that this is generally true of all Presidents, who really cannot be expected to know the minutae of everything they are required to speak or opine about.

What Trump lacks is prudence; knowing when to keep his mouth shut.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's childish fantasy to assume that a new global consensus will emerge without the United States as leader.



Ok.

You know the argument is done when a certain someone starts speaking in absolutes and calling other posters "childish" for their beliefs.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by New Era

You know the argument is done when a certain someone starts speaking in absolutes and calling other posters "childish" for their beliefs.

Ahh, classic New Era.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by peter12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

I'd be interested how you would characterize "something."

And where were they in 1939? Oh, you mean the war started before 1941? Sorry, that was my "childish" understanding of history.

The Americans watched their longest and bestest friends get jumped in a bar fight and waited until both had the #### kicked out of them, and the bully was running out of gas, before joining the fray and showing what a great fiend they were. What an amazing ally!

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by peter12

And just to add to my skepticism to all this nonsense, this is hardly the LOWEST point in German-American relations in the last 15 years.

I cant think of anything remotely close under Obama and Bush Jr that comes close to this frankly. I'm not sure 'low' is the term, but clearly the Germans, and everyone else have no faith in the US at the moment.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I cant think of anything remotely close under Obama and Bush Jr that comes close to this frankly. I'm not sure 'low' is the term, but clearly the Germans, and everyone else have no faith in the US at the moment.

This was pretty low.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Joe Scarborough says this is the most damaging trip by a President in over 45 years.

https://twitter.com/JoeNBC/status/868879079730282496

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by New Era

And where were they in 1939? Oh, you mean the war started before 1941? Sorry, that was my "childish" understanding of history.

The Americans watched their longest and bestest friends get jumped in a bar fight and waited until both had the #### kicked out of them, and the bully was running out of gas, before joining the fray and showing what a great fiend they were. What an amazing ally!

But what about the Americans coming to help France and the U.K. In First World Wa....errrr...nm

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by peter12

I don't really see the humour in this kind of stuff anymore. We are on a constant satirical news cycle now, and it is tiring. I guess it is for kind of dumb people to feel good about kind of following current events without having to put actual work into understanding what is happening, and why.

Personally, I didn't think Trump had a bad trip, and a lot of what he said to NATO and the G7 actually had a pretty significant impact.

Omg, go iron your socks.

[photon]

Trump saying he wants more dollars in healthcare. That's why he worked so hard on the bill that takes out hundreds of billions out of health care?

The most bizarre thing about this whole health care thing in the US, everyone argues about how much should be spent, if there should be basic coverage or not, if person A should be paying for health care for person B, etc...

But the actual cost of health care and how to bring that down to something closer to the rest of the world almost NEVER gets discussed (unless it's how to get cheap drugs from Canada). I guess that's because so many politicians' pockets are filled with money from the people who profit from sky high health care costs, because that seems like such an easy campaigning point.