Oilers new arena design

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty jealous too of the Oilers and their new arena. By the time Flames get their new arena, who knows if guys like Gaudreau and Monahan will even be around anymore. Heck, they might already be in the decline of their careers.

Who gives a crap? Why is it a priority that the arena be ready before these two are on their decline? You'll still want your beer faster, your better food and shorter bathroom lines just as badly when they are gone and have been replaced by our new local ice heros (not that I actually think you are correct).

So funny that people are worried about Edmonton getting their rink first. Their rink was older and worse than the Dome. The Flames have had a better building than the Oil almost their entire existence in Calgary, and we are sweating that they are going to replace their building first? All that means is they will have the shinier new toy for what, maybe 5 years, then we'll have the ever rink for the next 20 or so. Edmonton needed a new rink much worse than we did and their building was older,mthusmthey are getting theirs first, people need to calm down.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty jealous too of the Oilers and their new arena. By the time Flames get their new arena, who knows if guys like Gaudreau and Monahan will even be around anymore. Heck, they might already be in the decline of their careers.

I get that you are jealous of Edmonton's new arena, but why in God's name would anyone be jealous of the Oilers??

[spuzzum]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I get that you are jealous of Edmonton's new arena, but why in God's name would anyone be jealous of the Oilers??

5 Stanley Cups & Whyte Ave. Love that pizza place at 2am.

[The Familia]

Honestly not a big fan of the outside exterior. Reminds me of a fancier Saddledome, too much aluminum siding making it look like a tuna can. I'm a fan of lots of glass as an exterior facade. Kansas City Sprint Center is much nicer on the outside. I am quite envious of the interior of Rogers Arena... Looks top notch.

[Resolute 14]

The outside is just ridiculous. Pork chop, apostrophe, sperm. Call it what you want. That's a bad looking design.

As far as jealousy goes, I've been to enough great arenas to not worry about that. Oiler fans got to be jealous of the Saddledome for 30 years. They'll have the newer rink for about a decade, it seems, then we'll have our new barn too. I see no reason to be jealous of Edmonton any more than I should Newark or St. Paul - both of which have tremendous rinks themselves.

[Weitz]

Yah I don't really see a reason to be jealous. I've been to a bunch of Arenas around the NHL, and to be honest I forget about them because its not the one I go to all the time.

[CroFlames]

I hope there is a lot of glass on the facade of Calgary's new rink. Glass makes things like nice.

The concrete bowl of GM Place is unsightly, as is too much aluminum siding.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Not gonna lie, I'm pretty jealous too of the Oilers and their new arena. By the time Flames get their new arena, who knows if guys like Gaudreau and Monahan will even be around anymore. Heck, they might already be in the decline of their careers.

I can see that, they're getting that arena, but at the end of the day I'm not jealous of the absolute fleecing that they City of Edmonton took.

The Oilers get nice, shiny new digs and the City and Citizens get a nice fat bill to pay for the foreseeable future. Thanks but no thanks. I like the Flames but I love Calgary.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Locke

I can see that, they're getting that arena, but at the end of the day I'm not jealous of the absolute fleecing that they City of Edmonton took.

The Oilers get nice, shiny new digs and the City and Citizens get a nice fat bill to pay for the foreseeable future. Thanks but no thanks. I like the Flames but I love Calgary.

Really people act like that money is coming out of their own personal bank accounts but the reality is that the city will manage just fine and things will move forward. We always hear about all these bad deals in North America for professional sports facilities but when has a city actually really been crippled because of it? All the cities are wasting taxpayer money on a daily basis and an arena just a different place to waste it.

[Tyler]

Lotta shade being thrown in this thread!

[Flamescat]

It's a giant metallic toilet that looks like it was designed by Frank Gehry. Toilet because of all the turd hockey that's being played there.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really people act like that money is coming out of their own personal bank accounts but the reality is that the city will manage just fine and things will move forward. We always hear about all these bad deals in North America for professional sports facilities but when has a city actually really been crippled because of it? All the cities are wasting taxpayer money on a daily basis and an arena just a different place to waste it.

When you're living in a Province that is hell-bent on spending money they dont have and didnt earn I'd rather not have our City follow suit.

And maybe it hasnt crippled a city yet but I'd rather not be the first and I also dont want my Mayor coming in and saying:

"Sorry guys, we cant build that LRT station because....."

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really people act like that money is coming out of their own personal bank accounts but the reality is that the city will manage just fine and things will move forward. We always hear about all these bad deals in North America for professional sports facilities but when has a city actually really been crippled because of it? All the cities are wasting taxpayer money on a daily basis and an arena just a different place to waste it.

A metric **** tonne of cities.

Sure, they may bot be bankrupting the cities, but the opportunity cost of that money is being lost.

In the US, they are closing schools, cutting back on education, health spending, transportation. The actual things cities and provinces are supposed to spend money on that actually promote the lives of every citizen.

You cannot see the decline in education or healthcare, you cannot see the degradation of inner-cities in America while pantheons of human entertainment and excess are getting built next door.

It's atrocious, but it isn't a black and white, zero sum game. We see an arena, we don't see cut backs or increased debt load.

Your comment is literally the chant of those too ignorant to see the decline that is in store for western/capitalist societies in the next 50 years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Sure, they may bot be bankrupting the cities, but the opportunity cost of that money is being lost.

Opportunity cost of what exactly? The tax that municipalities put into play to pay for these stadiums? Because they don't come out of operations or capital budgets.

In the US, they are closing schools, cutting back on education, health spending, transportation. The actual things cities and provinces are supposed to spend money on that actually promote the lives of every citizen.

Great summation and emotional plea to the jury, counselor, but I'd like to counter a few things. Education spending is restricted at the state, not at the local level. The money that pays for improvements in infrastructure is also controlled primarily by state and fed money. Healthcare is a complete red herring and municipalities do not pay for those services. As I previously stated, local tax payers end up paying for the new facility through a directly imposed tax or levy to support the building. That is the nice thing about politics down here, the municipality pays for stuff through bonds or directed taxes, so it is fleshed out and voted on by the people prior to spending begins.

You cannot see the decline in education or healthcare, you cannot see the degradation of inner-cities in America while pantheons of human entertainment and excess are getting built next door.

It's atrocious, but it isn't a black and white, zero sum game. We see an arena, we don't see cut backs or increased debt load.

Your comment is literally the chant of those too ignorant to see the decline that is in store for western/capitalist societies in the next 50 years.

Stadiums are the downfall of western society? Come on. This debate can get emotional, but that's a new extreme for this argument.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really people act like that money is coming out of their own personal bank accounts but the reality is that the city will manage just fine and things will move forward. We always hear about all these bad deals in North America for professional sports facilities but when has a city actually really been crippled because of it? All the cities are wasting taxpayer money on a daily basis and an arena just a different place to waste it.

Uhm................If the stadium is funded by government the money IS coming out their own bank accounts. That's how taxes work.

There are countless examples of where building a new stadium has been a huge mistake. How long did it take for Montreal to pay for the Big O? If it didn't bankrupt the city then it must have been a huge success? Is that what you are saying?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Uhm................If the stadium is funded by government the money IS coming out their own bank accounts. That's how taxes work.

There are countless examples of where building a new stadium has been a huge mistake. How long did it take for Montreal to pay for the Big O? If it didn't bankrupt the city then it must have been a huge success? Is that what you are saying?

LOL you really going to use the 1976 Montreal Olympics disaster as an argument?

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL you really going to use the 1976 Montreal Olympics disaster as an argument?

You actually use LOL. OK then.

Ya, 1976 is a very long time ago. But 2006 isn't all that long ago and that's when Montreal finally paid it off.

There are stadiums in Canada that aren't even 10 years old that have no tenant and are nowhere near being paid for. Abbotsfords arena has been nothing but a huge money pit for the city. The Medicine Hat Tigers want to move. They have been in the new building for ONE season.

Building a new stadium isn't anywhere near the slam dunk of a good investment that you seem to think it is.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

You actually use LOL. OK then.

Ya, 1976 is a very long time ago. But 2006 isn't all that long ago and that's when Montreal finally paid it off.

There are stadiums in Canada that aren't even 10 years old that have no tenant and are nowhere near being paid for. Abbotsfords arena has been nothing but a huge money pit for the city. The Medicine Hat Tigers want to move. They have been in the new building for ONE season.

Building a new stadium isn't anywhere near the slam dunk of a good investment that you seem to think it is.

It's never really a good "investment" but neither are art projects around the city. What does art contribute to the economy? Nothing. But they are still nice and they entertain us and enrich lives.

The Olympics were great for the City of Calgary, and without the dome, oval, track and jumps, Calgary wouldn't have had it.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

You actually use LOL. OK then.

Ya, 1976 is a very long time ago. But 2006 isn't all that long ago and that's when Montreal finally paid it off.

There are stadiums in Canada that aren't even 10 years old that have no tenant and are nowhere near being paid for. Abbotsfords arena has been nothing but a huge money pit for the city. The Medicine Hat Tigers want to move. They have been in the new building for ONE season.

Building a new stadium isn't anywhere near the slam dunk of a good investment that you seem to think it is.

The Tigers didn't want to move. The problem was having no lease for the new arena. Now that they have agreed to a lease they will remain for many years to come.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by New Era

Opportunity cost of what exactly? The tax that municipalities put into play to pay for these stadiums? Because they don't come out of operations or capital budgets.

Money is money, if it wasn't spent - recurrently - on arenas, it could go operations or capital, be left in the hands of taxholders, taxed by another level of government, etc. Drawing these arbitrary silos around different budgetary areas and saying they must be maintained is self-delusion and ignores the relationships between economic factors.

What you are claiming is effectively the argument a six year old makes when he says he has a separate stomach for desert.