What is a fair Joe Colborne contract?

[EldrickOnIce]

3 years total of 7.5, or take the arb for 1 year.
I like Colborne a lot, but gotta be careful here

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't believe the poster said "irreparably cripple". That is a little dramatic. But the point is that as bad contracts expire, it would be nice not to replace with new bad contracts.

Colborne is useful player but I see no reason to sign him to a LT deal. let's see what he can prove next year.

I can agree with that. I just don't think it is out of range at all to Colborne around $3.0 m a season. He could end up earning that on a long term deal, and it likely wouldn't be a bad contract.

[MissTeeks]

Boomer & Warrener
Boomer & Warrener – Verified account ‏@BoomerAndRhett

Colborne on new contract: "We've had some talks. We're hopefully getting closer. I'm not thinking it's going to take too long." #Flames

[shotinthebacklund]

Joe is a very down to earth guy, My wife played basketball with his sister /sisters and I had a conversation with him. I believe he has no problem in taking a let me earn it contract and things are going to work out. I still believe he has more to show and he can be exactly what we want in him.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

Joe is a very down to earth guy, My wife played basketball with his sister /sisters and I had a conversation with him. I believe he has no problem in taking a let me earn it contract and things are going to work out. I still believe he has more to show and he can be exactly what we want in him.

I got over this feeling a few years ago.

NHL player and great guy no doubt, but I'm no longer holding my breath

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I got over this feeling a few years ago.



NHL player and great guy no doubt, but I'm no longer holding my breath

Well, that makes absolutely zero sense considering he's shown more every single year he's been here, including a very good year last year.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I got over this feeling a few years ago.

NHL player and great guy no doubt, but I'm no longer holding my breath

You got over it before he played a full season in the NHL? He's played 3 full seasons and has improved in each, unless you have absolutely ridiculous expectations for the guy there is zero reason to think he can't be a good second line winger.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You got over it before he played a full season in the NHL? He's played 3 full seasons and has improved in each, unless you have absolutely ridiculous expectations for the guy there is zero reason to think he can't be a good second line winger.

He has certainly improved every season but if Colborne is on your 2nd line you better have an exceptional first line and very useful 3rd and 4th lines if you expect to play for the Cup. That's why its critical you not over pay for a guy like him.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

He has certainly improved every season but if Colborne is on your 2nd line you better have an exceptional first line and very useful 3rd and 4th lines if you expect to play for the Cup. That's why its critical you not over pay for a guy like him.

Not so sure. Money aside, look around the league and you find Colborne stacks up fine compared to contenders second line wingers.
Why it is critical you don't overpay is because you need to have players who outperform their contracts, particularly as the Flames cap up for Monahan, Gaudreau and others - given the salaries paid out on D already.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

there is zero reason to think he can't be a good second line winger.

You mean besides the fact that he's pretty much been a failure whenever he's been given the opportunity to be that in the past?

Joe can be an effective player... but only if he's put in the right situation with the right people. I don't like how constraining that is but I can live with it if he's paid with his deficiencies in mind.

[Roof-Daddy]

Colborne is prime example of "the grass is greener on the other side" if I've ever seen one. It really is puzzling to me.

Maybe it stems from him being 6'5 225lbs but not being a physical, bruising, punishing power forward type and people resent him for it? I dunno.

He's had three full NHL seasons now, all with the Flames. His production by year:

Year 1 - 0.35 ppg / 14:16 TOI
Year 2 - 0.44 ppg / 15:25 TOI
Year 3 - 0.60 ppg / 15:09 TOI

So pretty good offensive development, especially while battling injuries along the way.

He's not a blazer, but his skating is fine.
His IQ is fine.
He has skill.
He can play RW, LW and even C in a pinch.
Also very good in the shoot out, IIRC.
Not a bruiser, but he is a big guy. That's a plus in my books.

If they can keep his cap it to $3 million or less I don't see why anyone wouldn't want him on their team. Many more positives than negatives in my eyes.

My only worry would be that he did put up a chunk of points in "garbage time" this last season, but that might not mean anything either.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Colborne is prime example of "the grass is greener on the other side" if I've ever seen one. It really is puzzling to me.

Maybe it stems from him being 6'5 225lbs but not being a physical, bruising, punishing power forward type and people resent him for it? I dunno.

He's had three full NHL seasons now, all with the Flames. His production by year:

Year 1 - 0.35 ppg / 14:16 TOI
Year 2 - 0.44 ppg / 15:25 TOI
Year 3 - 0.60 ppg / 15:09 TOI

So pretty good offensive development, especially while battling injuries along the way.

He's not a blazer, but his skating is fine.
His IQ is fine.
He has skill.
He can play RW, LW and even C in a pinch.
Also very good in the shoot out, IIRC.
Not a bruiser, but he is a big guy. That's a plus in my books.

If they can keep his cap it to $3 million or less I don't see why anyone wouldn't want him on their team. Many more positives than negatives in my eyes.

My only worry would be that he did put up a chunk of points in "garbage time" this last season, but that might not mean anything either.

Unless you think his late season surge is a sign of things to come, Colborne is nothing more than a depth forward who will come into next year as the team's 6th best forward (on a team with weak depth) behind Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Frolik and Bennett. Even guys like Bouma and Ferland are close to him or could push him down, which is to say nothing of Shinkaruk and Poirier pinning for spots. There is also the very good chance a UFA forward is added who is better than Colborne.

I personally think that his late season hot streak is unrepeatable and he will revert to being a 10-15 goal, 30-40 point player. I'm not saying he's trash, I'm just saying he's a 3rd line guy. He doesn't make players better, he is made better by other good players. He's not good defensively and he uses his massive frame very infrequently. I think if we sign him to $3m for 3 years or whatever his market value is, he will just end up getting pushed down the lineup as the team improves and will become part of the next generation of bad contracts for this team.

[DJones]

How I see us in two years compared to 70M "template"

$7M(Gaudreau 6.75- $7M(Monahan, 6.75)- $5M(Ferland/Pribyl, 1.5M) = 4M saved
$3M(UFA, 5M)- $5M(Bennett, 5.5?)- $3M(Tkachuk, 0.825) = 0.25M over
$2M(Colborne, 2.5) -$3M(Backlund, 3.575)-$2M(Frolik, 4.3) = 3.375 over
$1M(Bouma, 2.2)- $1M(Stajan, 3.125)- $1M(Hathaway, 1.0) = 3.45 over
$.75M- $.75M (Whoever)

$7M(Gio, 6.75)-$5M(Hamilton, 5.75) = 0.5M over
$4M(Brodie, 4.65)-$3M(Andersson, 0.825) = 1.525 under
$2M-$1.5M (Whoever, should be on budget)
.75M

$5M (I have no idea)
$1M

I think were fine. Stajan stands out as the worst fit(1st line RW???). Frolik and Bouma as well but nothing to drastic. Penguins are showing how important a strong third line is. Andersson and our 1st pick this year doesn't seem like a stretch to assume they will make the team. If Janko, Poirier or Shinkaruk could fill in a top 6 spot they could save us 4M in 2017.

Cap will probably be 75 M as well. I think we'll have room to sign a solid UFA.

[shotinthebacklund]

How long ago was it that Backlund was the CP whipping boy now? should we have dumped him when he was looking for a contract?

The value of Joe is in his next contract. BUT that's the same value that's in every single player in the leagues contract.

You can discount what Joe did in "garbage" time or you can take it as a realization of the potential that he has.

If you sell out on him and this is a realization of potential it becomes a Brad black eye. If you sign him and he plays the same as pre "garbage" time but his contract is valued approximate to this level is he a player that holds a team back on the third line? I believe not. If he signs a Potential realized contract and under performs he becomes a "anchor" contract.

It all comes down to the value of contract

Is Brad a GM that avoids risk or a GM that takes risks with rewards.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

How long ago was it that Backlund was the CP whipping boy now? should we have dumped him when he was looking for a contract?

The value of Joe is in his next contract. BUT that's the same value that's in every single player in the leagues contract.

You can discount what Joe did in "garbage" time or you can take it as a realization of the potential that he has.

If you sell out on him and this is a realization of potential it becomes a Brad black eye. If you sign him and he plays the same as pre "garbage" time but his contract is valued approximate to this level is he a player that holds a team back on the third line? I believe not. If he signs a Potential realized contract and under performs he becomes a "anchor" contract.

It all comes down to the value of contract

Is Brad a GM that avoids risk or a GM that takes risks with rewards.

Backlund is twice the player Colborne is or will be IMO. If $3.5m is good enough for Backlund, BT needs to get Colborne signed to significantly less or trade his rights. I'm so sick of meh players like Raymond, Stajan, Wideman, Smid and Bouma eating up so much cap space on this team. No need to add to that when some of these problems are finally about to disappear.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Backlund is twice the player Colborne is or will be IMO. If $3.5m is good enough for Backlund, BT needs to get Colborne signed to significantly less or trade his rights. I'm so sick of meh players like Raymond, Stajan, Wideman, Smid and Bouma eating up so much cap space on this team. No need to add to that when some of these problems are finally about to disappear.

You dont have to tell me what the value of Backlund is. I am a huge fan of Backlund and see a player that has yet to reach potential in him. But I also see a player in Colbourne that has yet to reach potential. I will be happy with a 3.25 AAV. preferably 3 yrs.

[EldrickOnIce]

Then they better sign/trade or have developed somebody to take up the slack. The drop off after Frolik's 32 points doesn't look good. (Colborne had 44).

Ferland 18
Stajan 17
Jooris 13
Bouma 7

[DJones]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Then they better sign/trade or have developed somebody to take up the slack. The drop off after Frolik's 32 points doesn't look good. (Colborne had 44).

Ferland 18
Stajan 17
Jooris 13
Bouma 7

Isn't that pretty standard though? I thought Calgary did well having ten 30 point guys. Not many teams have that.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by DJones

Isn't that pretty standard though? I thought Calgary did well having ten 30 point guys. Not many teams have that.

Yup, but 3 of the 10 were defenseman, and one was traded. So Ferland 7th among those left.

Looking back, it was exactly after Hudler was traded that Colborne's scoring took off.
Coincidence? Maybe

[heep223]

I hope Joe sticks around. He clearly wants to be here and Colborne/Backlund/Frolik is one of the best 3rd lines in the league. He's a useful player, very versatile.