Solidarity with Sask Teachers

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Who said they're at fault?

I said that I'm tired of the whining from teachers over their working conditions. Feel free to ignore my opinion if you don't like it or share it. I'm not saying that I want the government to run roughshod over the teachers.

I’m not suggesting that you’re supporting the government’s actions I just don’t know what point you’re trying to make or what you stand to gain by complaining about what some teachers get. You’re literally complaining about your working conditions with your (former) employer while saying that teachers shouldn’t complain about theirs. How does complaining about what the teachers have improve your situation and how does further improving their conditions negatively impact you?

It’d be like someone telling you to stop whining about not getting your leave approved because they don’t get leaves at their work and that you should be grateful because you(hypothetically) got an employee discount on your company’s services which they also don’t get. Doesn’t make much sense does it?

You’re generally very supportive of working people and a good poster so I’m not trying to call you out or say that your opinion couldn’t be argued. It’s just a bit of a gear grinder for me when people complain about the benefits employees have at other work places when it has no impact on what they get for themselves and unintentionally advocates for the eroding of standards which will only put someone further behind in actually improving their own situation. I’ll leave it at that.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by spotthefan

Exactly. The government even tried to say "look we put the funding in the budget, get back to work."

Until next year when they slash it again.

This is what so many people don't understand about the issue. I'm actually surprised the teachers have held strong for so long.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by manwiches

My wife is a teacher in Regina here. Many details out there, but some key things to know

- government was never going to negotiate in good faith. I'm misremembering dates, but prior to the CBA expiring, the government had engaged the advertising company that's run a smear campaign, 2-3 months prior to the CBA actually expiring
- said smear campaign, is painting teachers like all they care about is a raise, and also stating untrue numbers on the raise they are requesting and that they are given. Simply put, teachers are serially underpaid in this country. Period
- my wife could give 2 #####s abouts the pay increase. Sure it's nice, but the issue of classroom complexity is what's at issue, and what the government does not want to put on the table. Fix this issue, and most teachers, if not all, are happy to go back to work.
- What is classroom complexity you ask? I'll use my wife's current grade 4 classroom as an example. She had 29 kids to start the year. Now she has 31. She has 2 children with severe learning disabilities, 5 ESL students, and 2 students with severe behavioural issues. She has an EA that comes 30 min a day. And this is in a more affluent area of the the city. This doesn't account for her messaging parents after hours, marking and inputting grades, dealing with the emotional drain of the day and all this while still trying to plan and teach the other students in her class. She is burnt out every single day, and emotionally, physically, and mentally exhausted. She loves what she does, but also wants to quit, as it's not doing well for her mental well being.
- The government refuses to address these issues, instead towing a line of inclusivity and bandaid solutions that won't put handling these issues front and center. Teachers are burning out like crazy in this province, as well as the country and States.
- This will seem crass, but truly, kids with issues, learning disabilities, and other learning challenges, should be placed in other classrooms. Class room sizes should not exceed 25 kids. These are just basic things. I have a 10 year old, who tells me all the time how his teacher always has to focus on these other students, instead of focussing on the rest of the class. The other 70% of the class is left to do worksheets, and fend for themselves. My child has lost his love for school at Grade 5, and it's because of situations like this. Teachers are there to raise leaders and contributing members of society. Not pander to the minority. I am not saying that the minority should be forgotten. But there should be other class rooms or resources that they can use, rather than take away from the other 70%, like my child.
- This whole strike and CBA thing has been going on all year. Government and public hasn't really given a crap. Sure, your kids will miss a few days of school, or lunch room etc etc. But with Hoopla being threatened to be cancelled this weekend, GOD FORBID MY CHILDREN MISS THEIR SPORTS. Get a clue.

Anyways, I could go on and on. My wife just wants to go back to work and not be stressed, burnt out, and overworked. Government and the idiot education minister need to get their head out of their a$$

Dear lord I can't agree with this more.

Lots of ignorant and uneducated parents on the actual issues at hand.

[flamesfever]

I think there must be a large number of things coming together at one time, that are affecting teachers:

1. Governments having trouble budgeting, dealing with high debt and interest rates

2. Past trauma related to burnout and health risks experienced during the pandemic

3. Overburdening with paper work

4, Lack of Special Education for kids on the slow end of the curve.

5. Lack of help in dealing with kids suffering with physical, mental, and behavioral issues

7. Large number of new Canadians with language problems and having difficulty adjusting socially

9. Parents thinking their kid is a genius, and deserves special attention

10. Lack of support from the public at large

11. Etc.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think there must be a large number of things coming together at one time, that are affecting teachers:

1. Governments having trouble budgeting, dealing with high debt and interest rates

2. Past trauma related to burnout and health risks experienced during the pandemic

3. Overburdening with paper work

4, Lack of Special Education for kids on the slow end of the curve.

5. Lack of help in dealing with kids suffering with physical, mental, and behavioral issues

7. Large number of new Canadians with language problems and having difficulty adjusting socially

9. Parents thinking their kid is a genius, and deserves special attention

10. Lack of support from the public at large

11. Etc.

Also lots of Millennials and young Gen Xers sending their kids to school, without adequate previous investment into educational infrastructure and education/training of new teachers. Upon graduation, I had multiple friends who were unable to get positions in teacher's college. I knew a few people who completed teacher's college but then couldn't find positions, so they walked from the industry.

Now 10-15 years we have a shortage of teachers....shocking.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by blankall

Also lots of Millennials and young Gen Xers sending their kids to school, without adequate previous investment into educational infrastructure and education/training of new teachers. Upon graduation, I had multiple friends who were unable to get positions in teacher's college. I knew a few people who completed teacher's college but then couldn't find positions, so they walked from the industry.

Now 10-15 years we have a shortage of teachers....shocking.

Yes, I recall the time when there was a super abundance of teachers. I think the biggest mistake they made at the time was trying to solve the problem by encouraging all the "Master Teachers" to resign by offering them packages. I believe the profession suffered a huge loss as a result, as there was a large deficit of the highly skilled mentors for all the younger teachers.

[FlamesAddiction]

Even if you had more teachers, would you have the space for them? It's not like there are empty classrooms or schools just waiting for teachers. The number of schools I see with portable trailers for classrooms is pretty discouraging if that is the solution instead of building more schools.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol. Those were the class sizes (even up to 35) through the early 80s and 90s when I was in school. Every single teacher in Canada knew those were the class sizes before their first day in the education program at university because they went through school with those exact class sizes.

The government is resisting class size reductions because of all the additional costs associated with reducing them. You'd need more buildings, more staff, etc. Plus, this works. Always has and always will.

As for kids' mental health issues, those have always been there, but we just have names for a bunch of them now that we didn't used to have. People haven't changed.

Same era and I 100% agree. But, also in the same era, children with learning disabilities or just weren't academically inclined, were separated and grouped together. Schools try to avoid that now (I have no idea why), hence, the complexity issues others have mentioned.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Same era and I 100% agree. But, also in the same era, children with learning disabilities or just weren't academically inclined, were separated and grouped together. Schools try to avoid that now (I have no idea why), hence, the complexity issues others have mentioned.

I am sure there has to be studies or data to back it up, but segregation of students with disabilities was a huge disservice to many individuals. People who may have become high-functioning and employable in society, were placed in environments that didn't help them realize their potential. There were a lot of parents at the time that didn't want de-segregation. It was a little controversial at the time.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

You don't know any teachers. Come on.

I'm sure he does, I just bet they don't teach core subjects. The way it's being described has Gym / Art teacher all over it.

[RandyHolt]

I think there is the space available to reduce class sizes at least in Elementary school, but it would require more kids on a bus from the suburbs to more inner city schools. There's always a list of schools at risk of closure due to low enrollment, so if more teachers and bus drivers were available, they could get the class sizes down.

The bigger issue is the ESL, learning disability and behavioral issue kids in the classes though. It must be exhausting as a teacher to spend 80% of your time trying to get through to the same 5-10 kids out of a class of 30. De-segregation of these kids might allow them a better chance to succeed but it certainly reduces the education of the other kids in the classes pretty significantly. No idea what the right solution is, but it's currently a huge problem that needs addressing.

[Fuzzy14]

Let’s say you’re right(even though I think this is debatable) and there are no additional kids with mental health issues compared to in the past, even if that was the case you couldn’t possibly deny that there are far more ESL students than there were before and that clearly adds additional challenges to teaching a class.

I'm sure there's lots of data out there, I could find it if needed, but even anecdotally there's a good argument for there being way more kids with a diagnosed something or other today? My wife teaches high school and the number of kids that are coded for this, or suffer from that, is staggering. A huge part of her job now is working with, reporting on, and addressing "IPPs".

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by manwiches

My wife is a teacher in Regina here. Many details out there, but some key things to know

- government was never going to negotiate in good faith. I'm misremembering dates, but prior to the CBA expiring, the government had engaged the advertising company that's run a smear campaign, 2-3 months prior to the CBA actually expiring
- said smear campaign, is painting teachers like all they care about is a raise, and also stating untrue numbers on the raise they are requesting and that they are given. Simply put, teachers are serially underpaid in this country. Period
- my wife could give 2 #####s abouts the pay increase. Sure it's nice, but the issue of classroom complexity is what's at issue, and what the government does not want to put on the table. Fix this issue, and most teachers, if not all, are happy to go back to work.
- What is classroom complexity you ask? I'll use my wife's current grade 4 classroom as an example. She had 29 kids to start the year. Now she has 31. She has 2 children with severe learning disabilities, 5 ESL students, and 2 students with severe behavioural issues. She has an EA that comes 30 min a day. And this is in a more affluent area of the the city. This doesn't account for her messaging parents after hours, marking and inputting grades, dealing with the emotional drain of the day and all this while still trying to plan and teach the other students in her class. She is burnt out every single day, and emotionally, physically, and mentally exhausted. She loves what she does, but also wants to quit, as it's not doing well for her mental well being.
- The government refuses to address these issues, instead towing a line of inclusivity and bandaid solutions that won't put handling these issues front and center. Teachers are burning out like crazy in this province, as well as the country and States.
- This will seem crass, but truly, kids with issues, learning disabilities, and other learning challenges, should be placed in other classrooms. Class room sizes should not exceed 25 kids. These are just basic things. I have a 10 year old, who tells me all the time how his teacher always has to focus on these other students, instead of focussing on the rest of the class. The other 70% of the class is left to do worksheets, and fend for themselves. My child has lost his love for school at Grade 5, and it's because of situations like this. Teachers are there to raise leaders and contributing members of society. Not pander to the minority. I am not saying that the minority should be forgotten. But there should be other class rooms or resources that they can use, rather than take away from the other 70%, like my child.
- This whole strike and CBA thing has been going on all year. Government and public hasn't really given a crap. Sure, your kids will miss a few days of school, or lunch room etc etc. But with Hoopla being threatened to be cancelled this weekend, GOD FORBID MY CHILDREN MISS THEIR SPORTS. Get a clue.

Anyways, I could go on and on. My wife just wants to go back to work and not be stressed, burnt out, and overworked. Government and the idiot education minister need to get their head out of their a$$

And just to chime in, this is what I have in my classroom pretty much all the time. I have only minimal training to deal with behavior issues, learning disabilities/disorders, psychological issues, teaching to ESL students the nuances of English etc. It doesn't get better at the University level. These students get pushed through a system so that the numbers look okay, but they aren't able to do much once they reach my level, and then they are surprised to discover their grades are poor and they flunk out within a year. Lots of issues with these kids never reaching any potential at all. It sucks. I have my own issues with burnout at the end of every year, and it takes me all summer to get my desire to teach back.

It's not the teacher's fault at the lower levels, it's the absolute lack of any sort of support or funding for teachers to do their job. The more I see these problems, the more I think that most of it could be solved by simply doing the necessary thing of funding and supporting teachers and teaching institutions. What we're doing right now isn't sustainable.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by manwiches

What is classroom complexity you ask? I'll use my wife's current grade 4 classroom as an example. She had 29 kids to start the year. Now she has 31. She has 2 children with severe learning disabilities, 5 ESL students, and 2 students with severe behavioural issues. She has an EA that comes 30 min a day. And this is in a more affluent area of the the city. This doesn't account for her messaging parents after hours, marking and inputting grades, dealing with the emotional drain of the day and all this while still trying to plan and teach the other students in her class. She is burnt out every single day, and emotionally, physically, and mentally exhausted.

Not to compare but this story is not unusual. Things are getting far more complex in classrooms and it affects the teachers' ability to reach every kid every day. It is so much different from when I started in 2014 that I honestly can't believe it's real and what's expected of teachers is insane.

I am Grade 6 in a suburban Calgary school and have 20 ESL students in my regular classroom of 28, 4 with special needs (daily documentation & reporting requirements are every 6 weeks instead of twice a year like regular students), as well as one more undiagnosed issue that affects the classroom in a big way. The reading level in my room ranges from non-readers to high school, and the math understanding in my room ranges from kids working on skip counting by 2's and 5's to kids solving complex algebraic equations.

[blankall]

Did Alberta historically have ESL students in separate programs?

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by manwiches

Teachers are there to raise leaders and contributing members of society. Not pander to the minority.

I get what your saying and I totally agree teachers are grossly underpaid but I don't agree with this part. Teachers are there to teach.

The reality of today is there are a lot of kids with "needs" and extra work that wasn't known even 5-10 years ago but teachers are there to teach to all, not just the "other 70%". Its your job as a parent to raise a contributing member of society, not the teachers.

The way your post is written reads to me like you want a class system in place where kids without any disabilities are taught separately. This exists, its called Private school.

My son is high functioning ADHD child and takes medication but if he is left to his own he will do the bare minimum to rush through his work which impacts his grades; when he has help with reminders he is at par with the higher grades in his class.

[indes]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

I get what your saying and I totally agree teachers are grossly underpaid but I don't agree with this part. Teachers are there to teach.

The reality of today is there are a lot of kids with "needs" and extra work that wasn't known even 5-10 years ago but teachers are there to teach to all, not just the "other 70%". Its your job as a parent to raise a contributing member of society, not the teachers.

The way your post is written reads to me like you want a class system in place where kids without any disabilities are taught separately. This exists, its called Private school.

My son is high functioning ADHD child and takes medication but if he is left to his own he will do the bare minimum to rush through his work which impacts his grades; when he has help with reminders he is at par with the higher grades in his class.

This sounds like ~75% of the boys I was in school with, including myself. Isn't there private school available if you want your son to be walked through the work?

[you&me]

Originally Posted by indes

This sounds like ~75% of the boys I was in school with, including myself. Isn't there private school available if you want your son to be walked through the work?

There is.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

My son is high functioning ADHD child and takes medication but if he is left to his own he will do the bare minimum to rush through his work which impacts his grades; when he has help with reminders he is at par with the higher grades in his class.

And I get why you'd prefer he be in a regular classroom.

But time spent one-on-one is a zero sum game in a classroom. If one kids gets more that necessarily means that others are getting less.

IMO there's some level of support required (and I'm not saying that it includes your son) where a regular classroom isn't the right environment

[MacDaddy77]

He doesn't need to be walked through the work, just reminders to stay on task, there are other kids that need more attention in his specific class but he doesn't have an issue with the material or work, just the way his brain works he gets distracted easier. I'm using my personal life as another point of view to the post.



My POINT is that teachers need to be able to help ALL kids in the class, some classes and schools don't have the funding or support that others do and that sucks but regardless you cant just place all the kids that aren't top percentile in one class and shove the rest of the kids in another to do whatever learning they can because the top quartile should be "leaders and contributing members of society" like somehow having a learning disability excludes you from achieving this.

I read the tone from Manwiches post as being very elitist in such a way that learning disability kids should be learning somewhere else and not with HIS kid.

Everyone is so quick to point out the teachers but I'd challenge most parents on how much work are they putting in with their kids at home. Any time we ask, the teacher is more than happy to send additional worksheet home for us to work on with our son.