American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS (Archive)

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Come on man. At least give the guy a chance like people have been telling you to. It's only been just a week and he'll get to those literal naval minefields in a a month or two.

I admit i said let's see what he does but wow it hasn't even been a week and I'm convinced, he's so far past the line. What is he doing? This is nuts and this is coming from the conservative side. Actually makes me really mad.

[Drak]

卐rump

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

You underestimate people.
Regardless, I'd think America is on a bit of a different level than say the Philippines.

Right, Duterte is accused of allowing thousands of extra judicial killings which far exceeds what Trump has done and really, how many people care. There was some attention a few months ago when he called Obama names but virtually nothing now. Let alone the world caring about Trump making changes to the US's immigration policies.

[direwolf]

[nik-]

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/mike-...constitutional

Teen Vogue with the hard hitting journalism. What a time to be alive.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

As for the stay, I don't know how the jurisdiction of various US courts works, but it seems strange that a judge in Brooklyn has the authority to singlehandedly stay the effect of an executive order.

I believe this is the state rights thing in effect.

From what I've understood over following years of US politics, the US actually has quite a lot legal of hurdles in the way of federal government "overreaching."

The specifics are beyond my legal expertise, but I think the basic idea is that unconstitutional laws can be struck down (at least locally and temporarily) in almost any court.

(Over time of course the big cases move up the chain to the supreme court.)

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by nik-

http://www.teenvogue.com/story/mike-...constitutional

Teen Vogue with the hard hitting journalism. What a time to be alive.

Teen Vogue has been hitting hard at Trump for quite a while now. Major news outlets can't find the nerve to come at him, but freaking Teen Vogue is going in hard.

That said--it's fantastic to see an outlet like that, aimed at young women, taking such a stand.

Also I put my money where my mouth is tonight and set up monthly donations for Planned Parenthood, the ACLU, PBS and NPR. We need PP to provide healthcare that millions of women need, the ACLU has proven their necessity today alone, and PBS/NPR provide solid, relatively neutral reporting on what's happening in the world.

As awful as I feel about many of this country's voters, about most politicians and especially the GOP and the Trump administration, I'm currently feeling really, really patriotic about the protests and the calls to make donations to necessary organizations. Speaking up and making a scene forced the Agricultural Department to lift the gag order on the USDA, and the protests and reaction from our attorneys and activists pushed a judge to at least place a stay on Trump's Muslim Ban.

It's only a start, and this is going to be an unbelievably long 4 years, but I'm feeling just a tiny bit of hope. We the People, indeed.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Itse

I believe this is the state rights thing in effect.

From what I've understood over following years of US politics, the US actually has quite a lot legal of hurdles in the way of federal government "overreaching."

The specifics are beyond my legal expertise, but I think the basic idea is that unconstitutional laws can be struck down (at least locally and temporarily) in almost any court.

(Over time of course the big cases move up the chain to the supreme court.)

It was a federal court judge. It was done in New York because the stay request was related specifically to two people detained at JFK.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by accord1999

Right, Duterte is accused of allowing thousands of extra judicial killings which far exceeds what Trump has done and really, how many people care. There was some attention a few months ago when he called Obama names but virtually nothing now. Let alone the world caring about Trump making changes to the US's immigration policies.

Yeah, you're right, nobody cares about anything.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bunk

It was a federal court judge. It was done in New York because the stay request was related specifically to two people detained at JFK.

Sure, I was just commenting on the logic behind the system. (Based on my admittedly limited understanding of the topic)

[puffnstuff]

It was a federal court judge as it dealt with a federal law, they deal with both federal criminal and constitutional matters. They are separate from the state courts which deal with state criminal charges.
Any of the 94 federal district courts can rule on the constitutionality of a federal law. The govt would have to appeal the ruling, there is a federal appellate court above the district court. Then the supreme court above that.

http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federa...-and-structure

[taco.vidal]

Good.

[sureLoss]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politi...ban/index.html

The policy team at the White House developed the executive order on refugees and visas, and largely avoided the traditional interagency process that would have allowed the Justice Department and homeland security agencies to provide operational guidance, according to numerous officials who spoke to CNN on Saturday.

Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly and Department of Homeland Security leadership saw the final details shortly before the order was finalized, government officials said.

Friday night, DHS arrived at the legal interpretation that the executive order restrictions applying to seven countries -- Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan and Yemen -- did not apply to people who with lawful permanent residence, generally referred to as green card holders.

The White House overruled that guidance overnight, according to officials familiar with the rollout. That order came from the President's inner circle, led by Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon. Their decision held that, on a case by case basis, DHS could allow green card holders to enter the US.

There had been some debate whether green card holders should be even allowed to board international flights. It was decided by the Department of Homeland Security they could fly to the US and would be considered on a case-by-case basis after passing a secondary screening.

But the guidance sent to airlines on Friday night, obtained by CNN, said clearly, "lawful permanent residents are not included and may continue to travel to the USA."

As of Saturday afternoon, Customs and Border Protection continued to issue the same guidance to airlines as it did Friday, telling airlines that fly to the US that green card holders can board planes to the US but they may get extra scrutiny on arrival, according to an airline official.

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Separately, a person familiar with the matter said career officials in charge of enforcing the executive order were not fully briefed on the specifics until Friday. The officials were caught off guard by some of the specifics and raised questions about how to handle the new banned passengers on US-bound planes.

Regarding the green card holders and some of the confusion about whether they were impacted, the person familiar with the matter said if career officials had known more about the executive order earlier, some of the confusion could have been avoided and a better plan could be in place.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Teen Vogue has been hitting hard at Trump for quite a while now. Major news outlets can't find the nerve to come at him, but freaking Teen Vogue is going in hard.

I don't get this comment. All major news outlets have been coming hard at Trump and increasingly so during the primaries, during the election, pre-inauguration and post-inauguration. They have been so anti-Trump that his supporters have tuned them out completely and written them off as left wing mouth pieces.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Apparently a federal judge in Brooklyn has ordered a stay of Trump's executive order banning refugees and immigrants:

https://twitter.com/JackieVimo/with_replies

It covers those in transit and those who have been detained so far.

If someone from one of the listed countries applies for a visa tomorrow, they aren't getting it.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

It was a federal court judge as it dealt with a federal law, they deal with both federal criminal and constitutional matters. They are separate from the state courts which deal with state criminal charges.
Any of the 94 federal district courts can rule on the constitutionality of a federal law. The govt would have to appeal the ruling, there is a federal appellate court above the district court. Then the supreme court above that.

http://www.uscourts.gov/about-federa...-and-structure

Out of thanks but thanks. This is pretty much how I thought it is, but I was a little vague on the details.

Do you happen to have an idea on why it is like this? Like, historically speaking, why have a system where a single judge can overrule an executive order? (And not some super special judge either, as there's thousands of these district court judges (says wikipedia).)

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well #### then

Counseling Trump in the effort will be Stephen K. Bannon, the White House chief strategist whose influence inside the administration is expanding far beyond politics. In a separate presidential memo, Trump reorganized the National Security Council to, along with other changes, give Bannon a regular seat on the principals committee — the meetings of the most senior national security officials, including the secretaries of defense and state.

That memo also states that the director of national intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will sit on the principals committee only when the issues to be discussed pertain to their “responsibilities and expertise.” In the previous two administrations, both were included as regular attendees.

The White House thinks the changes will make the NSC more adaptive to modern threats. Trump said the changes would bring “a lot of efficiency and, I think, a lot of additional safety.”

The changes affirm the ascent of Bannon, the former executive chairman of Breitbart, a conservative website that is popular with white nationalists, who has emerged as Trump’s political consigliere and the keeper of the president’s populist flame.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.1a8527396f76

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Itse

Out of thanks but thanks. This is pretty much how I thought it is, but I was a little vague on the details.

Do you happen to have an idea on why it is like this? Like, historically speaking, why have a system where a single judge can overrule an executive order? (And not some super special judge either, as there's thousands of these district court judges (says wikipedia).)

Part of the checks and balances. The judiciary has oversight on the constitutionality of laws. Any challenge would first go to district court for a ruling before working its way up. Because the SC is not always sitting and as cases are usually very time sensitive, the petitioners need their day in court asap. The SC, I believe, will actually pick and choose which cases from the appellate court it will hear. They receive petitions on cases from the AC and will refuse to hear them, itbis not automatic that a federal case will end up before the SC.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well #### then

we're effed.

[Locke]

I'm always surprised by people who are against immigration. It just seems counter-productive to me.

We shouldnt be hampering immigration we should be finding reasonable methods to bridge skills that immigrants had in their home countries with our standards.

I worked at Greyhound and the security guy swinging a flashlight was an ear/nose/throat surgeon in Pakistan.

He cant have been complete crap at it.

We need a way to take these people, determine their level of competency compared to our standard and then have an expedited method to cover the gap.