Potential Career Shift to Teaching

[Locke]

Originally Posted by calf

But Locke, the overtime! As an accountant, you don't know what that's like!

Ha! Well played good sir.

One time, for fun, I actually calculated all of the hours I work through tax season to figure out what it amounted to in terms of 40 hour weeks.

It was grim, I can tell you that. So I feel no remorse for taking days off when its slow. Being self-employed helps with that.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by Locke

But it wouldnt kill people to say: 'yeah, this job is pretty great, I get paid well and have lots of perks.'

Yeah, this job is pretty great. I get paid well and have lots of perks!

There, I said it!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Yeah, this job is pretty great. I get paid well and have lots of perks!

There, I said it!

I'm watching you...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I don't recall sitting at home with teachers while they marked work and came up with lesson plans. I'm sure getting through some high school essays/work is pretty painful.

So Pros: Vacation time. Other vacation time. Vacation time. Early days (although my current job in the super-fancy field of investment banking is 7:15-4 or 4:30, so that's probably about the same). Vacation time. General cushyness. Vacation time. Lack of dog/bear haters and lake thumpers. Pisses off snobs who think they work harder. Oh and I almost forgot: teaching/leading the younger generation to actually contribute and hopefully groom some people that can have a good impact on humanity vs making sure people who've never worked for a day in their life get their $60,000/mnth interest payments off of daddy's inheritance (makes me feel sooo good!).

Cons: Dealing with brats. Snobs look down their nose at your vacation time. Maybe vacation time should be in the cons category?

Yeah...I've pretty well made my decision about this. It's just a matter of executing it. Thanks to everyone for the help!

I don't know anybody who looks down their noses at the vacation time and I don't know who you'd be referring to when you say snobs do. I think people are envious of the time off teachers get and wish the world could still operate in the manner to which we are all accustomed if we could all work 2/3 of a day, 3/4 of the year and still be making $100k per year with a short career and insane pension.

Certainly you can't be referring to me in your response. I'm the biggest advocate for teachers out there and completely support and encourage you to get into teaching.

[Danijam]

I feel strongly on this topic as I have spent a lot of years kicking myself for not getting into teaching after high school when it was a four-year degree program.

In my late 20s I worked closely with teachers and administrators in a school division as a contracted support staff member. That's probably where I first began to see the error of my ways. I had to negotiate my own contracts (which were pretty crappy - but you take what you have to when you are operating solo and the threat to strike would be laughable) and my work and productivity were held to a different standard than those represented by the union. That was okay, the work itself was rewarding but it just began to illustrate to me that I'd chosen the wrong degree program. Once I had kids I was again reminded just how perfect a teaching career is for a great lifestyle. And let's face it - over time it becomes obvious that the best careers are the ones that support the best lifestyles and ability to spend quality time with family.

But as Sliver said you get to a point where the bigger mistake would be losing momentum on the path you've chosen by following a dream you're 20 years behind on. It would be like deciding to be a rock star at 40.... It's unrealistic not to consider the correlation between opportunity and age.

So all this said, I'm a huge advocate for teaching as a career choice for the young. Every babysitter I get, student I come across and even with my own children, I make my case for why teaching in Canada is the best job you can get if you weigh lifestyle, salary, security and having an impactful job. There are some pieces of insight you can only get with time and observation. I wish someone with the breadth of experience to know what I know now had given me this same advice 25 years ago.

So yes, OP, I think if you should do it. In fact, I truly believe that if you don't make the switch now, you'll one day wish you had. Good luck!

[ma-skis.com]

I'm glad we're all for people working as teachers, but I wish the perks weren't the key reason people are promoting that job. It s a good gig, but the wrong person in that position is going to make life hell for a lot of kids, the wrong personality is going to end up becoming the teacher that only does it for the perks.

Do it if you like working with kids otherwise find something else because all those perks won't be worth hating 30 years of your life doing a job where the best part of your work is when you're not there.

[Coach]

Sorry Sliver, I was reacting to your initial post which seemed to have some condescension towards the profession and all the great perks they get. If I took that wrong, my apologies. My girlfriend and I get a lot of snobbery when we tell people we'd rather teach abroad than make money in oil and gas (or some offshoot of that). Calgary in general is a very individually-oriented city it terms of the attitudes of most people and it's becoming increasingly bothersome.

But as ma-skis above points out, the perks of the job are obviously nice, but it is certainly not the reason I look to be a teacher and isn't really the type of advice I was looking for here. We all know the nice parts of being a teacher, as you said, we saw it all the time as kids. Being back on that type of schedule would be nice, no question. My reasons for wanting to teach stem from my belief that I would be good at it and my experience as a coach has exposed me to the great feeling you get when you witness someone learn from you and apply their new knowledge.

It also comes from what I think I need to do in order to have the best possible positive impact on the world with my knowledge, interests and skillset. I feel like we're on the cusp of some major changes in the way we educate our youth and I want to be part of that. I want to make sure people of the next generation can view our world globally, not as individuals and that they are going to improve upon the mistakes that even my young generation is making. Teaching is the best way I know how to do that.

I thank everyone for the advice, keep it coming!

[malcolmk14]

Just out of curiousity I've been tracking my hours since Christmas break.

January 5-11: 62.5 hours
January 12-18: 51.5 hours
January 19-25: 53 hours
January 26-Feb 1: 46 hours

Some of the comments in this thread about it being a 2/3 or 3/4 time job are silly IMO.

Not complaining, the time off is worth it. But I can't fathom trying to do this job while only working 40 hours a week.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

Just out of curiousity I've been tracking my hours since Christmas break.

January 5-11: 62.5 hours
January 12-18: 51.5 hours
January 19-25: 53 hours
January 26-Feb 1: 46 hours

Some of the comments in this thread about it being a 2/3 or 3/4 time job are silly IMO.

Not complaining, the time off is worth it. But I can't fathom trying to do this job while only working 40 hours a week.

I think a more accurate measure would be to add the hours per week for an entire teaching career. I know you're young and relatively new to teaching, so longer hours are to be expected. That will taper back the longer you teach as you become more efficient, have established lesson plans, etc. There will also be three months per year where you work literally zero hours per week. That's why I say it's a 3/4 time job. It objectively is. Also, watch some of your colleagues - not all of them are putting in the hours you do. A tip of my hat to you, though. I'm a fan of your posts and have no doubt you are an excellent teacher.

[loudi94]

Been teaching at the same school since 98. The profession has changed immensely during that time. As has been touched upon here, the teaching part is great but the BS creeping from up above is really taking away from what should be going on in the classroom. I spend more time taking care of administrivia than I do planning. Add the negative perception from the public in general and you have a lot of people dissatisfied. We feel we constantly have to justify the breaks. I'm not sure why because anyone that's spent a few days in a classroom will tell you that it is a high stress environment.
Everyone is an expert since we all went to school. No one tells a proctologist how he should proceed with an exam, yet we have people far removed from a classroom dictating policy. It's a bit assbackwards.

The "perks" I read about are a bit comical. I will have a nice pension when I retire. To date, I have contributed just shy of $200K of my salary to that pension. Medical and dental (great plan BTW) come out of pocket when you retire. The time off is nice and I won't complain, but we are tied to those days. No taking time off during the school year. Also while it is nice to hit the top of the grid after 11 years, it means that there are no increases unless negotiated. We are currently in year 3 of a wage freeze. We are scheduled for a 2% increase in September but that is under attack by the premier.

So much to print...so little time.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by loudi94

Been teaching at the same school since 98. The profession has changed immensely during that time. As has been touched upon here, the teaching part is great but the BS creeping from up above is really taking away from what should be going on in the classroom. I spend more time taking care of administrivia than I do planning. Add the negative perception from the public in general and you have a lot of people dissatisfied. We feel we constantly have to justify the breaks. I'm not sure why because anyone that's spent a few days in a classroom will tell you that it is a high stress environment.

I think the thing that a lot of teachers in these conversations don't seem to appreciate about other vocations is they too operate in high-stress environments. And with those, you don't have the opportunity for 25% of the year off with no professional responsibilities during that time.

I don't think it is something you need to justify, though. I think an answer along the lines of, "Yes, I'm very fortunate to have a job that allows me to enjoy such a great work-life balance" would satiate a lot of criticism. In my opinion, the public isn't antagonistic towards teachers and their benefits; however, they are a little frustrated when these perks that would be unsustainable in the private sector go under appreciated.

Originally Posted by loudi94

Everyone is an expert since we all went to school. No one tells a proctologist how he should proceed with an exam, yet we have people far removed from a classroom dictating policy. It's a bit assbackwards.

This is a disingenuous line of reasoning, IMO. A teacher's life is very similar to a student's - and all of us used to be students. For 75% of the year, you are at the school for a minimum of 6.75 hours per day (with an hour break for lunch). Then you go home and have homework some days and not on other days.

While as students we didn't exactly follow a teacher's schedule, we operated in the same environment with similar enough lifestyles to provide a very strong frame of reference. I think all of us know what it is like to be a teacher more than say what it's like to be a fireman, or a cop, or a pilot, or work shift work, etc.

Originally Posted by loudi94

The "perks" I read about are a bit comical. I will have a nice pension when I retire. To date, I have contributed just shy of $200K of my salary to that pension. Medical and dental (great plan BTW) come out of pocket when you retire. The time off is nice and I won't complain, but we are tied to those days. No taking time off during the school year. Also while it is nice to hit the top of the grid after 11 years, it means that there are no increases unless negotiated. We are currently in year 3 of a wage freeze. We are scheduled for a 2% increase in September but that is under attack by the premier.

Okay, so you've contributed $200,000 to your pension. That's great, but not unique. Anybody who plans to retire needs to save. What is unique for teachers versus most in the private sector is your pension is guaranteed by the taxpayers. It will never go down. You never need to worry about a pool of money running out, or the economy tanking and you have to take a job at Wal-Mart. A predictable, very liveable cheque will be automatically deposited into your account every month from the day you start teaching until the day you die. I think you should appreciate that for just how insane it is in today's world - I mean there's a reason not every company has a pension plan and of the ones that do most are not guaranteed.

As for the time off - it's hard to feel too bad for teachers that their time off is fixed. If I could choose to have 25% of the year off - with pay and no responsibilities - I'd take a couple months of in July and August when the weather is at its absolute best. I'd take a few weeks off around Christmas because I like to snowboard and it's a fun time of year to have off with all that's going on. Probably take another 10 days in the Spring to take a little vacation or ski some more. Then I'd sprinkle a few days here and there throughout the year to balance it all out. You literally have the best days of the year off, so it's hardly a cross to bear that you don't get to choose them - they're the ones you'd choose anyway!

Did I read it wrong that you don't think it's ideal to reach the top of the pay scale after 11 years?! That's some very strange logic. It's a dramatic line from base pay straight to the top in a very short span of time - a few may do that in the private sector, but it's far from the norm and incredible (for teachers).

And your raise in September isn't "under attack" by the premier. It may be under review, but the way you describe it adds a negative spin that isn't fair. Have you been to the "Layoffs in the Oilfield" thread? Are you aware our province is going through something that is dramatically affecting the lives of Albertans. I would think as a taxpayer and citizen of this province you'd voluntarily offer to forgo the 2% raise in September if it isn't in the budget. I mean, that's how the world normally works. If something can no longer be afforded, then we need to review it. Very strange attitude you have on that, IMO.

Originally Posted by loudi94

So much to print...so little time.

Maybe pick it up in July and August - I imagine you'll have some free time then. (I don't mean that to sound as bad as it does...just a playful jab.)

Anyway, just so everybody is clear, my interest in this is because I see teaching as such a great career. I think the negatives of it are wildly overblown and the positive aspects of it are undersold.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by loudi94

The "perks" I read about are a bit comical. I will have a nice pension when I retire. To date, I have contributed just shy of $200K of my salary to that pension.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Okay, so you've contributed $200,000 to your pension. That's great, but not unique.

So I looked into what a teacher pays into their pension, which is roughly $1000 a month. If someone in a normal job were to take that $1000 a month and put in into an RRSP for 30 years, what's the pay-off on something like that?

If a person figures to retire at age 60, then they figure they will die at age 90, what would be the monthly pay-out on that RRSP? Assuming normal risks.

I think right now for a teacher it's 2/3's of their current salary for the pension. So for a teacher at the top of a grid, the take home would be around $2500 I think.

Anyone know how to run those numbers?

I wonder if teachers would be better off buying their own RRSP's each month rather than paying into a pension. I mean if they die at 65, it's all gone, no inheritance to anyone.

If you have better numbers, I'd be curious to see what they were.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

So I looked into what a teacher pays into their pension, which is roughly $1000 a month. If someone in a normal job were to take that $1000 a month and put in into an RRSP for 30 years, what's the pay-off on something like that?

If a person figures to retire at age 60, then they figure they will die at age 90, what would be the monthly pay-out on that RRSP? Assuming normal risks.

I think right now for a teacher it's 2/3's of their current salary for the pension. So for a teacher at the top of a grid, the take home would be around $2500 I think.

Anyone know how to run those numbers?

I wonder if teachers would be better off buying their own RRSP's each month rather than paying into a pension. I mean if they die at 65, it's all gone, no inheritance to anyone.

If you have better numbers, I'd be curious to see what they were.

Depending on how you select a payout that can be the case but you can also select a spouse or relative to receive a reduced payout in the event of death for a number of years.

[loudi94]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

So I looked into what a teacher pays into their pension, which is roughly $1000 a month. If someone in a normal job were to take that $1000 a month and put in into an RRSP for 30 years, what's the pay-off on something like that?

If a person figures to retire at age 60, then they figure they will die at age 90, what would be the monthly pay-out on that RRSP? Assuming normal risks.

I think right now for a teacher it's 2/3's of their current salary for the pension. So for a teacher at the top of a grid, the take home would be around $2500 I think.

Anyone know how to run those numbers?

I wonder if teachers would be better off buying their own RRSP's each month rather than paying into a pension. I mean if they die at 65, it's all gone, no inheritance to anyone.

If you have better numbers, I'd be curious to see what they were.

Here's a bit on our pension:

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/SiteCollec...tributions.pdf

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/Publicatio...on-Points.aspx

[loudi94]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think the thing that a lot of teachers in these conversations don't seem to appreciate about other vocations is they too operate in high-stress environments. And with those, you don't have the opportunity for 25% of the year off with no professional responsibilities during that time.

I don't think it is something you need to justify, though. I think an answer along the lines of, "Yes, I'm very fortunate to have a job that allows me to enjoy such a great work-life balance" would satiate a lot of criticism. In my opinion, the public isn't antagonistic towards teachers and their benefits; however, they are a little frustrated when these perks that would be unsustainable in the private sector go under appreciated.



This is a disingenuous line of reasoning, IMO. A teacher's life is very similar to a student's - and all of us used to be students. For 75% of the year, you are at the school for a minimum of 6.75 hours per day (with an hour break for lunch). Then you go home and have homework some days and not on other days.

While as students we didn't exactly follow a teacher's schedule, we operated in the same environment with similar enough lifestyles to provide a very strong frame of reference. I think all of us know what it is like to be a teacher more than say what it's like to be a fireman, or a cop, or a pilot, or work shift work, etc.



Okay, so you've contributed $200,000 to your pension. That's great, but not unique. Anybody who plans to retire needs to save. What is unique for teachers versus most in the private sector is your pension is guaranteed by the taxpayers. It will never go down. You never need to worry about a pool of money running out, or the economy tanking and you have to take a job at Wal-Mart. A predictable, very liveable cheque will be automatically deposited into your account every month from the day you start teaching until the day you die. I think you should appreciate that for just how insane it is in today's world - I mean there's a reason not every company has a pension plan and of the ones that do most are not guaranteed.

As for the time off - it's hard to feel too bad for teachers that their time off is fixed. If I could choose to have 25% of the year off - with pay and no responsibilities - I'd take a couple months of in July and August when the weather is at its absolute best. I'd take a few weeks off around Christmas because I like to snowboard and it's a fun time of year to have off with all that's going on. Probably take another 10 days in the Spring to take a little vacation or ski some more. Then I'd sprinkle a few days here and there throughout the year to balance it all out. You literally have the best days of the year off, so it's hardly a cross to bear that you don't get to choose them - they're the ones you'd choose anyway!

Did I read it wrong that you don't think it's ideal to reach the top of the pay scale after 11 years?! That's some very strange logic. It's a dramatic line from base pay straight to the top in a very short span of time - a few may do that in the private sector, but it's far from the norm and incredible (for teachers).

And your raise in September isn't "under attack" by the premier. It may be under review, but the way you describe it adds a negative spin that isn't fair. Have you been to the "Layoffs in the Oilfield" thread? Are you aware our province is going through something that is dramatically affecting the lives of Albertans. I would think as a taxpayer and citizen of this province you'd voluntarily offer to forgo the 2% raise in September if it isn't in the budget. I mean, that's how the world normally works. If something can no longer be afforded, then we need to review it. Very strange attitude you have on that, IMO.



Maybe pick it up in July and August - I imagine you'll have some free time then. (I don't mean that to sound as bad as it does...just a playful jab.)

Anyway, just so everybody is clear, my interest in this is because I see teaching as such a great career. I think the negatives of it are wildly overblown and the positive aspects of it are undersold.

I don't criticize or compare my job to other occupations because I have no idea how their job works. I know how mine works. However, it doesn't mean that others don't "evaluate" mine. I do have professional responsibilities on my time off and my work-life balance is heavily tipped to one side for 10+ months a year. The old adage "walk a mile" applies here. Being a student is nothing like being a teacher....nothing. To not be in the profession and insinuate otherwise is also disingenuous. You say I don't need to justify, yet you have misconceptions about teaching. However, I do understand perception is reality.

I linked the pension thing above. The association does a very good job with our pension. It is self-sustaining.

As far as the salary goes...is that what people do, forego salary? Because I did say we were legislated 3 zeros when oil was almost $100. AAWE was around 10% during that time and COL sure didn't drop. It will be with a clear conscience that I will accept a raise for the first time since 2011. As a taxpayer, get rid of the flat tax and with the raise,I'll end up with a net loss. That's doing my part.

July's coming...then I can peck away unfettered from the psych ward with nary a care in the world.

[DataDoxy]

Teaching is a critically important profession. IMO it is vital that we attract the right people into the field. People who understand learning and know how to design and implement authentic learning experiences that challenge and support all 30+ unique learners in the classroom. We need to attract people who are experts in their content area(s) and who are excited and knowledgeable about how to share their knowledge with kids... but IMO we need people who go beyond this as the job demands more. Teaching requires individuals who are willing to work more than 6.75 hours a day because they are dedicated to reaching every child no matter how much time it takes. It means being a counsellor, a parent, a mentor, a motivator, an entertainer, a behaviour coach, a problem-solver, on top of being a learning specialist. Children come to school with their self esteem and in essence, their future, in their teacher's hand. Great teachers foster kids' self esteem and give them the mindset and the skills they need to be successful inside and outside the classroom. Great teachers leave their mark for life... as do weak teachers. Who would you want your child to have as a teacher? Someone who is in it merely for the time off or the aforementioned "perks"?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by DataDoxy

Teaching is a critically important profession. IMO it is vital that we attract the right people into the field. People who understand learning and know how to design and implement authentic learning experiences that challenge and support all 30+ unique learners in the classroom. We need to attract people who are experts in their content area(s) and who are excited and knowledgeable about how to share their knowledge with kids... but IMO we need people who go beyond this as the job demands more. Teaching requires individuals who are willing to work more than 6.75 hours a day because they are dedicated to reaching every child no matter how much time it takes. It means being a counsellor, a parent, a mentor, a motivator, an entertainer, a behaviour coach, a problem-solver, on top of being a learning specialist. Children come to school with their self esteem and in essence, their future, in their teacher's hand. Great teachers foster kids' self esteem and give them the mindset and the skills they need to be successful inside and outside the classroom. Great teachers leave their mark for life... as do weak teachers. Who would you want your child to have as a teacher? Someone who is in it merely for the time off or the aforementioned "perks"?

I think you need to read my posts in context of the OP. Naturally I'm not going to give the same advice to somebody seeking a career in the military, or to a guy who always wanted to be a firefighter. MattyC clearly has an interest in teaching for the right reasons - when you have an interest in being an educator, the stars have aligned for you and you've won life's lottery (if you decide to pursue it).

[kootenayguy9]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think you need to read my posts in context of the OP. Naturally I'm not going to give the same advice to somebody seeking a career in the military, or to a guy who always wanted to be a firefighter. MattyC clearly has an interest in teaching for the right reasons - when you have an interest in being an educator, the stars have aligned for you and you've won life's lottery (if you decide to pursue it).

On February 9, 2015, the results of a province-wide survey of parents, teachers, education workers, and students, called “Alarm Bells Ringing: Voices from Schools”.

“The survey reveals that increasingly unacceptable classroom conditions and lack of support staff are resulting in too many Alberta children falling through the cracks,” says Harold Neth, Chairperson of Public Interest Alberta’s Education Task Force. “As a result, alarm bells are ringing loudly in schools around the province, but we question if the Education Minister and Premier are hearing these concerned voices from schools.”

Thoughts Sliver?

https://pialberta.org/sites/default/...llsRinging.pdf

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by kootenayguy9

On February 9, 2015, the results of a province-wide survey of parents, teachers, education workers, and students, called “Alarm Bells Ringing: Voices from Schools”.

“The survey reveals that increasingly unacceptable classroom conditions and lack of support staff are resulting in too many Alberta children falling through the cracks,” says Harold Neth, Chairperson of Public Interest Alberta’s Education Task Force. “As a result, alarm bells are ringing loudly in schools around the province, but we question if the Education Minister and Premier are hearing these concerned voices from schools.”

Thoughts Sliver?

https://pialberta.org/sites/default/...llsRinging.pdf

I'd take that survey with a giant grain of salt. It wasn't a scientific survey.

The online survey was conducted in the two months after November 3, 2014 and was completed by 434 individuals (62% teachers, 30% parents, 5% Educational Staff and 2% students.) Edmonton and Calgary together accounted for 47% of responses, with the rest from schools around the province.

While we do not suggest that this survey is “representative” of classrooms and schools in Alberta...

Their own publication clearly states the survey isn't representative of classrooms and schools in Alberta.

I think the whole thing should be ignored because it's drivel.

[GGG]

That survey is terrible you have teachers complaining about 24 kids in a class. You have parents complaining there is a special needs person in the class.

You have self selected people who have problems to complain about them. For example I did not participate in this survey but if asked I would have reported that the school my kids attend is fantastic and see no behavioural or class size issues.

This survey was used to vent.

Also confused that their is not one positive comment included.