Discipline in the classroom... is public shaming ok?

[DataDoxy]

Drury18's question:

I have a question as I've come across something new with my child's teacher this year. They just started Grade 3 and in a 3/4 split and came home to tell me the teacher has a behaviour chart posted in the front of the class where the names are posted with a coordinating colour. They've attended this school for the previous 3 years and none of the other teachers had these charts. The teacher is also brand new to the school and I believe a first year teacher as well. Previous teachers have always been discrete about issues and would take children aside and do things in an one on one manner and then talk to the parents afterwards or leave a note in the agenda. The chart is one of the "Green = Good, Yellow = Okay, Red = Bad, Purple = Call Home".

As parent/teacher's are coming up, I wanted to have a discussion with the teacher about this system as I don't agree with a public discipline system like this for children as it causes some to feel more stress and shame then they should (as proven in a couple of studies regarding this method of classroom discipline) as well as opens children up for bullying if they are always seen on the "bad" list. I am not sure how to approach this conversation.

Is this method used by many teachers? What would be the appropriate way to voice my concerns about this system?

I have a strong opinion about this... I do not agree with this type of discipline. I see the teacher's role as one that helps students learn. By this, I do not just mean helping them learn the necessary content but, helping them to learn how to behave, how to socialize, how to interact, how to problem solve, how to express themselves, how to collaborate, how to think and be creative... and so forth. The other job teachers have is to help students develop a positive self-esteem. With all of the tragic stories in school these days, this job is perhaps the most important job of all.

So, how do we teach kids how to behave while making sure their dignity and self-esteem are in tact? I do not think the answer is to track behavior on a chart for all to see. Here are my reasons...

First of all, I did this type of thing my first year of teaching but it was a "Positive Behavior" chart. On it, I recorded a check mark when students were caught behaving well, were doing something positive, or when they did their homework...things like that. What I came to realize is that you can not catch all students doing good things all the time and therefore, I missed a lot of 'positive acts' and the kids hated that. In addition, some students knew how to 'play the game' better than others so they received more check marks but was that really authentic? After one year I decided it was an inequitable system and I never used it again. (Although I did not give out red or purple marks for "bad" behaviour it was easy to see who was "good" by the number of check marks they accumulated. Not my best teaching moment.)

Secondly, a system that tracks negative behavior and makes this available for public view does in fact cause anxiety and stress for many kids. Anxiety and stress actually shut down the parts of the brain that are needed to learn, reason, process, and think. Obviously this is not an optimal learning environment!

Finally, kids who get a lot of red and purple marks may start to act like they don't care and might just "check out" all together. Sometimes this is done to save face as it is easier to not care than to "fail" or be "bad" (For my dissertation research I studied how kids behaved inside a classroom where the teacher publicly ridiculed students whom she thought were "bad". By the end of the year, these "bad" kids totally checked out. It was tragic).

So... in my opinion a system that publicly shames, humiliates, or stresses kids out is wrong. School is about learning, and learning to behave is part of that deal. In my experience, kids just want to be heard, to be cared about, to be safe, and to learn along side their peers. Usually the most difficult kids needed the most caring of all, but that is just what it takes. Caring... and teaching (not tracking) the appropriate ways to behave, socialize, and interact.

So... to answer your questions, I am not sure if this system is widely used but I hope not. It was not when I was in the classroom. In terms of the best way to voice your concerns, just be honest (There is a lot of research that will back you up!).

[DataDoxy]

I came across an article called "How Social-Emotional Learning Transform Classrooms" from a a group of researchers from the University of California, Berkley. I thought you (or your child's teacher) may be interested in it.



Inside the article, was this story:


"This student came to me with a core of defiance—she would rip up her papers, run away, and be quite obstinate. Most teachers would have labeled her oppositional-defiant, created a big file on her, and sent her to a counselor. Because I’m trying to embody SEL (social emotional learning), I chose to be calm, persistent, caring, and kind with her. I gave her permission to use a “feeling wheel” to label her emotion, and then sit in the “peace place” until she was ready to join the rest of the class. It gave her the power to know that she didn’t need to act out in order to avoid a task. She started to open up to me and tell me why she was so sad and disappointed. It took about two months to turn her around – so that instead of acting out, she could tell me her story or draw a picture, then let the situation go and bounce away.
I learned that, even though it can be hard to not take a child’s behavior personally, when you are mindful, you realize that the bad behavior is a cry for help. I think of a quote I read in a book: “When a child gives you a noose, you throw back a lifesaver.” Children will give you a noose to hang them with because they believe in their own worthlessness and they expect that you will, too. They don’t expect to trust adults or that someone really cares about them. This child is in second grade now and she’s mostly bouncing and happy because she no longer needs to express her pain by misbehaving. She’s also become quite a little writer, expressing very deep and profound things, showing a wisdom beyond her years in her ability to process her emotions."


Found at http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/arti...rms_classrooms

[photon]

Wow, that's pretty bad IMO, I'm not sure I would have been able to wait for parent/teacher interviews.

Problem is this is her outlook and it's hard to get people to change, she'll probably have a bunch of reasons/rationalizations. What do you do if she doesn't change? Go up the food chain? Move the kid to a different classroom? Seems like it's going to be a confrontation no matter what.

Doesn't the entire school system have policies on things like this?

[Dion]

A first year teacher pens a letter to other teachers on the use of stoplights in the classroom...



The letter is about teachers who use a stoplight for publicly tracking a students behaviour and what is wrong with public shaming. Red, yellow and green and a childs name beside each colour. Red representing the worst behaviour and green being the best.

As a first year teacher, I remember ‘writing names on the board.’ That’s what I was told to do, and that’s what my teachers did when I was in school. But then I started paying attention to the hurt, the shame, the frustration, and even the apathy in the eyes of those students whose names appeared in chalk day after day. They were six and seven years old, and I knew they deserved better.

I absolutely understand why you want it to work. It’s a very big and very unwieldy job to be in charge of educating dozens of young children for six hours/day. But we both have to admit that a major part of the stoplight equation, even if it works, is shaming. And shaming children simply isn’t what we educators are supposed to do.

We also know the predictable pattern the stoplight creates. Think about how it feels to see your name, day after day, moving towards that red circle, broadcast to your peers and anyone who walks into your classroom. Those are the very children who struggle with “school behavior,” and they deserve our support, not embarrassment.

Or you could think about how it feels to be 5 or 6 or 7 years old and to worry daily about your name being moved from its perch on green. I promise, there are more authentic ways to get children to think about their behavior and more compassionate ways to help children to develop those executive functioning skills. There really are.

http://germantownavenueparents.com/2...-for-behavior/

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by photon

Wow, that's pretty bad IMO, I'm not sure I would have been able to wait for parent/teacher interviews.

Problem is this is her outlook and it's hard to get people to change, she'll probably have a bunch of reasons/rationalizations. What do you do if she doesn't change? Go up the food chain? Move the kid to a different classroom? Seems like it's going to be a confrontation no matter what.

Doesn't the entire school system have policies on things like this?

Well I figured it was for the better as how this came to my attention was that on Monday my child received a "red" and when they brought home the note saying they got it was the first time I heard this came back. I didn't want to look like "that parent" where little Johnny gets in trouble and I'm going after the teacher as that was not my intent, nor do I believe teachers don't have a right to discipline children in the class. I wanted to get some facts straight and put aside the strong personal feelings I had of the system (as I was unfortunately severely bulled when I was in grade school because of this system so perhaps I'm oversensitive to it) to come up with a very mature way to approach this. I absolutely believe there needs to be discipline in the classroom and the teachers need to have ways to control the class, but when a child comes home scared to let me know what's happened because they've gotten a red and believes it that they have done something seriously wrong and everyone saw it and very upset, that's a bit much. The offense that caused the red was also something quite minor, running in the hall. Obviously against the rules, but I'm not sure punishable like this.

I found out at the interviews yesterday, all the 3/4 teachers in the school have adopted this and I saw how the system was presented myself. There is a board at the front of the class where at the end of the day the teacher will flip the cards for the students to show the colours. The note we were given and the explanation by the teacher is they are using this system as a "goal setting" system rather then punishment. If a child gets multiple yellow, red and purples during the week, they aren't being "punished" but will be working with the parent and teacher to set a goal for the next week to correct the behaviour getting these warnings. The note also went on to say that "bad" is a broad term that includes anything from talking in class or not finishing work or leaving the class without asking to fighting and stealing. And that if the child gets a red or a purple, they do not want the parents to punish them at home because this doesn't mean it's bad behaviour. Actually verbatim from the letter: "A call home or an orange or red card does not mean that your child is in trouble or "bad". This system in intended as a way for the students, teachers, and parents to be aware of student behaviour and to set effective goals to help the students find a positive place in their classroom community." They also go on to recommend that if the child gets a orange, red or purple card, there are no consequences at home because of it and that we make a goal for the child to work on the next day.

I'm still not sure I support this system and I told the teacher that this feels like the old system just repackaged. It has the hallmarks of the old system, but they've just reworded it to try to make it sound less negative. I also let her know the consequences I saw from this system when I was in school and asked why they would choose this as their option when there are so many more discrete and effective ways to do this exact thing WITHOUT having it in front of the entire class. Unfortunately, it still looks the exact same way it did in my day and I'm not sure a bunch of Grade 3/4's are going to comprehend that when you are singled out for doing wrong, when it's apparently not always really wrong, it's not negative. I mean if I'm having trouble trying to comprehend how talking in class holds the same seriousness as harming a classmate, is a 8/9/10 year old going to do much better? I'm sort of stuck between giving it a couple of months and seeing what happens or approaching the principal with some of these reports and facts and asking them to reconsider this system altogether. Moving classrooms isn't an option as all teachers have this, so if I wanted to escalate it, it would be Principal or School Trustee.

It seems though I'm not the only upset parent. When the teacher gave me the note she mentioned how a bunch of parents have freaked out about the system. So perhaps after enough of us say something, they will look at this system and remove the public part of it. I actually have no issues with using goal setting to correct behaviour since it's far more positive and includes the child in fixing the problem. I just want that part where it's on the board in the front of the class gone.

[DataDoxy]

Thanks for adding to the conversation. I have a few more comments based on your comments...

First, the best way to teach anyone something is to give them valuable and constructive feedback as soon as possible. For example, when I was learning to strike a golf ball, my dad would take me to the range and let me swing away. As such, I developed a particular swing that was has now been deeply embedded into my psyche. To this day, I have a back swing that goes waaaaayyyy beyond the optimal position which has led to my propensity to slice the ball. (Damn you muscle memory!) If someone had corrected my swing as I was learning the game, I would have had a better chance to learn the correct behaviour in the first place. Unlearning is much harder than learning!! The same goes for academic learning. As a math teacher, if I gave Monday's homework or quizzes back to my students on Friday, I would not be helping the kids who struggled with Monday's concept at all. In fact, since math is always building on prior lessons, students who were a little confused Monday would have been totally lost by Friday. Whether it is learning a sport, or learning an academic skill, or learning to behave, people need immediate feedback to learn optimally -as opposed to waiting for their tally at the end of the day. (There is a TON of research on the importance of immediate feedback.... much of it came from video games but I digress.)

So... if we are trying to teach kids how to behave properly, the best way to do this is to try and do it in the moment so they can learn what is expected and correct their behaviour. This can and should be done in a discrete manner as most students will already feel badly about their 'mistake' or 'poor decision'. This could include things like the teacher giving the student a private message (such as a note, or a tap on a desk chart indicating a need to change behaviour), or have a discrete signal that the students and the teacher know so they can get an in the moment reminder to change behaviour, or they can have quick chats with their teacher as soon as an appropriate moment arises. A creative teacher can make this happen. In short, kids do not want to be singled out because of their behaviour, but some of them just do not have the skills or focus to remember the rules all the time and they will make mistakes.

Other students do know how to behave but consistently misbehave anyways. Posting their behaviour on a chart in front of the class serves as a visual marker confirming they are in fact 'bad' both to themselves as well as to their peers. Over time this can lead to two things: It reinforces the student's identity as a 'bad' kid which does not lead to positive feelings or corrective results. In fact, when emotion (sadness, disappointment, embarrassment, anger) is connected to a consistent stimulus such as being tagged as ‘bad’, it can become a deeply embedded belief. In addition to negative identity creation, these ‘bad’ students often become socially isolated as kids do not want to hang out with the 'bad' kids. Again, this is not helping these kids learn to change or correct their behaviour. Both results can lead to issues later in life.

Finally, teaching kids they are ‘bad’ encourages a negative mindset. What we want in school is a Growth Mindset. Research shows that using a Growth Mindset leads to positive changes in beliefs, behaviours, and in academic results. Therefore, I highly recommend talking to teachers about Carol Dweck's Growth Mindset - it was designed to help teachers help kids learn optimally! It is also important to add that all kids just want to belong. Teaching them to behave in school will help them belong in their classroom as well as in life outside the classroom.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Drury18

Moving classrooms isn't an option as all teachers have this, so if I wanted to escalate it, it would be Principal or School Trustee.

It seems though I'm not the only upset parent. When the teacher gave me the note she mentioned how a bunch of parents have freaked out about the system. So perhaps after enough of us say something, they will look at this system and remove the public part of it. I actually have no issues with using goal setting to correct behaviour since it's far more positive and includes the child in fixing the problem. I just want that part where it's on the board in the front of the class gone.

I hope it goes well, I completely agree with you that the new system sounds exactly like the old one with all the same problems just framed with newer sounding rationalisation. With that many teachers using it that sounds like an uphill battle; if a group of professionals think something is a good idea they reinforce each others' beliefs.

Hopefully it isn't the principal that brought in this idea!

I've even read things that say both correction and praise should be given privately.

[ma-skis.com]

I always liked the story about the teacher who used to write the kids names on the board, then if they were disruptive again, they'd write it again, then a thrid time, then maybe in really large letters... sooner or later the kid figures out that the teacher has run out of options and the board has no power.

Keep in mind that you're criticizing someone trained in their own profession. Parents have been known to use systems like this in their own homes, a chore board or good deed tickets etc, and if you criticized the way they parent, that'd be a sensitive issue as well.