[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

All he has to do is respond. There is nothing about jumping. There is an offer - he can say yes or no, yet is choosing to do neither.

Would it be better if Nenshi just kept saying that he should have something to say about an arena deal in a few weeks. King pulled off that move for what... 2-3 years?

[Frequitude]

As we head into fall and eventual declining weather, I just want to once again reinforce my strong belief that whatever the stadium upgrade/replacement ends up being, it needs to be an outdoor facility.

Attending CFL games is more than just about watching the football. The real charm of it lies in the fact that you're outdoors. Sun on your face, fighter jets flying overhead, city skyline in view, experiencing the transition from spring to summer to fall to winter throughout the season. That's what completes the Canadian Football League experience.

As soon as you move it indoors you take away all of that and it just becomes another commoditized entertainment experience (inside, sitting down, drink in hand, watching something). Hockey, concerts, theatre, comedy, movies, etc...they're all basically just that and there's plenty of time for it from November to April.

As for the cold weather complaint, ya I get that. But it's only ~3 of the 11 games per year. Killing the outdoor experience of 8 games so you can be warm for 3 would be a disgrace. Heck, I'd argue that bundling up to sit in -30 and watch some football is one more part of the Canadian experience. Regardless, that is a problem solved not with a roof but with the CFL moving the schedule up 2-4 weeks (though I'd probably rather take November -30 risk over June rain risk).

New outdoor stadium > Renovated McMahon >>>>>>>>> Indoor stadium like CalgaryNEXT

[Ozy_Flame]

Why can't a new stadium have a retractable roof? Doesn't have to be black and white.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why can't a new stadium have a retractable roof? Doesn't have to be black and white.

Retractable roof = sunroof
Open air stadium = convertible

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why can't a new stadium have a retractable roof? Doesn't have to be black and white.

Hell ya, I'll take that assuming its done right so it feels like a "convertible" instead of a "sunroof". The problem is though that no one's going to pony up for a proper retractable roof.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

As we head into fall and eventual declining weather, I just want to once again reinforce my strong belief that whatever the stadium upgrade/replacement ends up being, it needs to be an outdoor facility.

Attending CFL games is more than just about watching the football. The real charm of it lies in the fact that your outdoors. Sun on your face, fighter jets flying overhead, city skyline in view, experiencing the transition from spring to summer to fall to winter throughout the season. That's what completes the Canadian Football League experience.

As soon as you move it indoors you take away all of that and it just becomes another commoditized entertainment experience (inside, sitting down, drink in hand, watching something). Hockey, concerts, theatre, comedy, movies, etc...they're all basically just that and there's plenty of time for it from November to April.

As for the cold weather complaint, ya I get that. But it's only ~3 of the 11 games per year. Killing the outdoor experience of 8 games so you can be warm for 3 would be a disgrace. Heck, I'd argue that bundling up to sit in -30 and watch some football is one more part of the Canadian experience. Regardless, that is a problem solved not with a roof but with the CFL moving the schedule up 2-4 weeks (though I'd probably rather take November -30 risk over June rain risk).

New outdoor stadium > Renovated McMahon >>>>>>>>> Indoor stadium like CalgaryNEXT

Yup, indoor stadium = the death of the fan base. Going into a new indoor stadium is a worse idea then just staying at McMahon the way it is.

[Finger Cookin]

Nothing is worse than just staying at McMahon the way it is. Nothing.

[s_procee]

Has there been a big swing in attendance this year? I thought the Fan base was on its way out anyways

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by s_procee

Has there been a big swing in attendance this year? I thought the Fan base was on its way out anyways

There has been a lot of nice weather. No one wants to stay indoors...

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

As we head into fall and eventual declining weather, I just want to once again reinforce my strong belief that whatever the stadium upgrade/replacement ends up being, it needs to be an outdoor facility.

Attending CFL games is more than just about watching the football. The real charm of it lies in the fact that you're outdoors. Sun on your face, fighter jets flying overhead, city skyline in view, experiencing the transition from spring to summer to fall to winter throughout the season. That's what completes the Canadian Football League experience.

As soon as you move it indoors you take away all of that and it just becomes another commoditized entertainment experience (inside, sitting down, drink in hand, watching something)...

New outdoor stadium > Renovated McMahon >>>>>>>>> Indoor stadium like CalgaryNEXT

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Why can't a new stadium have a retractable roof? Doesn't have to be black and white.

The atmosphere of BC Place is terrible because it feels like an convention hall despite the retractable roof.

If you're gonna do it, as mentioned it'll have to feel like a convertible moreso than a sunroof. So it would have to retract a significant portion above, plus having retractable glass on one end to make the stadium still feel open and have breeze come through. That would cost so much money that it's not worth it. Saskatchewan made the right choice scrapping the retractable roof plan.

Football is like baseball, it's meant to be played outside. The difference being that football is played in ALL weather.

[corporatejay]

Stadium is fine. A new rink would be nice but at this point I'm kind of happy just to keep both the way they are.

[Table 5]

The CFL would solve a lot of it's weather issues if it just started playing a month or two earlier. It's kind of ridiculous that playoff games often have the worst attendance, pretty much always because of weather.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The CFL would solve a lot of it's weather issues if it just started playing a month or two earlier. It's kind of ridiculous that playoff games often have the worst attendance, pretty much always because of weather.

Think it has something to do with NHL playoffs and MLB ratings as well.

[FireGilbert]

I was at McMahon for the first time in 8 years for the Argos game a few weeks ago and honestly it wasn't that bad. The game experience was awesome and the lines for food, drinks, and the bathrooms were all reasonable. Yeah the seats are a little tight (if you even have a seat), they only take cash for some reason, and it would have been miserable in the winter instead of a beautiful summer evening but does Calgary really need much more for a place that hosts 10 CFL and 4 CIS games a year?

A renovation is probably the best solution. Replace all the seating, add a roof over the stands, enclose the end zones to block wind, and expand and heat the concourse. Yeah, a new state of the art indoor or retractable roof stadium would be awesome but Calgary would need to attract far more events such as an MLS team, international soccer, international rugby, and big name concerts to make it worthwhile.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Think it has something to do with NHL playoffs and MLB ratings as well.

Are tv ratings paramount to a gate-driven league like that CFL? Even if that's the case, that seems a bit silly to me. I'd much rather sacrifice ratings and attendance at the beginning of my season, than the end, when the most important games are being played. I'd also rather be competing with the NHL in May, at a time when most of the Canadian teams are already out of contention, and people are looking to be outdoors (the NHL schedule is a whole other issue of course). I also think most fans are more than capable of following two sports at a time.

I'm not a hardcore CFL fan. I'm not even a fair weather one. So clearly what I suggest may be sacrilegious, but to nicer weather would be a draw. I don't care enough about the game to have to want to wear a parka.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I was at McMahon for the first time in 8 years for the Argos game a few weeks ago and honestly it wasn't that bad. The game experience was awesome and the lines for food, drinks, and the bathrooms were all reasonable. Yeah the seats are a little tight (if you even have a seat), they only take cash for some reason, and it would have been miserable in the winter instead of a beautiful summer evening but does Calgary really need much more for a place that hosts 10 CFL and 4 CIS games a year?

A renovation is probably the best solution. Replace all the seating, add a roof over the stands, enclose the end zones to block wind, and expand and heat the concourse. Yeah, a new state of the art indoor or retractable roof stadium would be awesome but Calgary would need to attract far more events such as an MLS team, international soccer, international rugby, and big name concerts to make it worthwhile.

They could literally solve the cash issue by spending a few hundred bucks on 3g machines. This is not a difficult problem to solve.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Of course the CFL should move up the schedule, makes far more sense for the season to end around Halloween than it does Murican Thanksgiving. Anyone who thinks a roofed stadium ends any other way than big attendance declines in summer hasn't paid attention to Montreal or Toronto or Vancouver. If anything TSN should be chopping at the bit to compete against the NHL playoffs and at least steal some ratings from RSN. At worst if the ratings aren't good, odds are they'll be better than...well, TSN probably showing meaningless CFL games from the previous season instead.

[Table 5]

Another thing is, that you'd think the CFL would be more concerned about overlapping with a good chunk of the NFL, considering it's the same, premier-version, of it's own sport. I wonder how many people start tuning out of the CFL once the NFL season rolls around.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Are tv ratings paramount to a gate-driven league like that CFL? Even if that's the case, that seems a bit silly to me. I'd much rather sacrifice ratings and attendance at the beginning of my season, than the end, when the most important games are being played. I'd also rather be competing with the NHL in May, at a time when most of the Canadian teams are already out of contention, and people are looking to be outdoors (the NHL schedule is a whole other issue of course). I also think most fans are more than capable of following two sports at a time.

I'm not a hardcore CFL fan. I'm not even a fair weather one. So clearly what I suggest may be sacrilegious, but to nicer weather would be a draw. I don't care enough about the game to have to want to wear a parka.

Yes they are as without the TSN deal the league probably goes under. They may be able to move it up a week or two but it's not nearly as simple as some fans may think. Moving the season up by two weeks moves training camp into middle of May which means there would be one week between the CFL draft and training camp which clearly doesn't work. The CFL needs to hold their draft after the NFL draft as CFL teams need to know if the guy they want in the first round isn't going to the NFL.

You also are the fan that the Stampeders want to attract. Not hardcore enough to freeze your ass off on a cold fall evening. They have a hardcore fan base of around 24k that they know will show up but they really would like to sell out playoff games and that just doesn't happen. There's no doubt in my mind they would easily sell out playoff games if they had an indoor stadium. I know some people love watching outdoors but the top NFL stadiums are indoor or retractable roof and nobody in Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Atlanta, Dallas, Texas, Detroit, New Orleans, LA (new stadium), Las Vegas (new stadium) are complaining as football isn't the same as baseball where you go to sit outside on a summer night with a hot dog and beer to watch a leisurely paced game of baseball. The new stadium in Regina for instance is a really nice facility but the overhangs are so big that more than half the field and stadium is covered by shade anyway so it's akin to sitting outdoors under a tarp for most fans and if that's the case you may as well go all the way so the seats are nice and warm in the fall/winter.

[Frequitude]

There's no doubt in my mind that they'd sell out their playoff game. Note the lack of an s. You only get one playoff game.

There is also no doubt that attendance at ~8 summer/fall games would be lower than today with an indoor stadium. The Stamps would lose a large number of those 24k hardcore fans if they moved indoors. I guarantee it.

8 >>>>> 1, even if that 1 is a playoff game. Hell, I'll spot you some rain and a cold October. 5 >>>>> 1.

I agree on the overhangs though. I would not want them in a new stadium or a renovated McMahon.