You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

As someone who had a sister attempt suicide, a father in law suffer from years of psychotic episodes brought on by treatments from a physical ailment - you are cruel and uninformed. Maybe you are getting your kicks by posting the most vile and insensitive comments about people with mental illness or maybe you are just this much of an a-hole. Hard to tell, and doesn’t matter. Nobody says to a cancer patient we are going to stop coddling you now, good luck.

All I can ask is stop posting on this subject now, the battle for those with mental illness and their families is hard enough and for those experiencing it your comments are damaging.

I'm not ill informed in the least. I'm the guy who has had to mop up the mess of two suicides in my immediate circle after years of hand holding, helping, dropping everything at a moment's notice and then supporting people and estates through the fall out.

Your sister attempted suicide? I'm sorry to hear that. Some of us have had to deal with multiple attempts by loved ones over a span of years and then have them actually succeed. I suspect your sister's attempt was very hard on you. Okay, now imagine she does that half a dozen more times and you're the one dealing with the issues that arise around it while also trying to live your own life. Then imagine if she succeeded and all the issues that arise after that.

Sorry, your experience does not give you any authority to dictate how my experience and perceptions get to be.

[Sliver]

Btw, I think some people cannot operate in this world and are not mentally equipped to ever live a life that is anything other than abject suffering and misery. We shame people who try to commit suicide and we shame people into living and suffering indefinitely even if we know there is no amount of mental help that can help some. I'd like to see this bridge guy have the option for maid so he can depart in a dignified way instead of drawing out his pain and inflicting more suffering on his family.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

I initially misread which use of the word deer you used and thought you were composing a letter to the RGMG thread.

"Dear RGMG,

I never thought it would happen to me..."

"It was a one in a million shot Doc....one in a million..."

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Is it not possible to use a leaf blower to blow the stuff out a few feet and rake it up? You might also be able to blow through the hedge to get some of the loose stuff out too.

I use a leaf blower to move stuff that's difficult to address like leaves on mulch. Get the leaves to the lawn without moving the mulch and rake it up off the lawn.

i don't think a leaf blower would do much. it would get the stuff at the base of the hedge, but you need to get inside and in between the cedars to get all the super dry/flammable stuff out. we've found the most effective way is to give them a big 'shake' and then still get up on a ladder and pull out more stuff that didn't fall.... but to do that the deer fencing needs to come off. it's amazing how much dead stuff comes out the hedge every year.

the deer fencing needs to be fairly tightly wrapped to be effective, otherwise the deer will either just stick their head/nose at the bottom and lift it out of the way or they'll stand on their hind legs and pull the top down (we've seen the deer do both )

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Btw, I think some people cannot operate in this world and are not mentally equipped to ever live a life that is anything other than abject suffering and misery. We shame people who try to commit suicide and we shame people into living and suffering indefinitely even if we know there is no amount of mental help that can help some. I'd like to see this bridge guy have the option for maid so he can depart in a dignified way instead of drawing out his pain and inflicting more suffering on his family.

The question is how do you ensure that the person is making a sound decision while suffering from a disease that impairs decision making.

[Fuzz]

I'm not ashamed to say I've used my giant shop vac to clean up material like that. Yes, I'm the guy vacuuming my hedges.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

The question is how do you ensure that the person is making a sound decision while suffering from a disease that impairs decision making.

Consider yourself fortunate if you haven't had to coexist with a loved one where it wasn't blatantly obvious MAiD would be in their best interests.

There is a point and length of time suffering when it becomes apparent. There will also be cases where it's less obvious, but I don't think it's some impossible task to come up with criteria.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Consider yourself fortunate if you haven't had to coexist with a loved one where it wasn't blatantly obvious MAiD would be in their best interests.

There is a point and length of time suffering when it becomes apparent. There will also be cases where it's less obvious, but I don't think it's some impossible task to come up with criteria.

Your first paragraph is quite the assumption. Consider yourself lucky to have never lived with a person where it would be ambiguous.

My question is a legal one not an emotional one. Given that most people who are unsuccessful at suicide don’t end up killing themselves later on you need to be certain that the person is making a non-impaired decision. For people with manic and depressive episodes they may never reach this requirement. For the chronically depressed they might never be able to reach that threshold.

If it’s easy what would your framework be?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your first paragraph is quite the assumption. Consider yourself lucky to have never lived with a person where it would be ambiguous.

My question is a legal one not an emotional one. Given that most people who are unsuccessful at suicide don’t end up killing themselves later on you need to be certain that the person is making a non-impaired decision. For people with manic and depressive episodes they may never reach this requirement. For the chronically depressed they might never be able to reach that threshold.

If it’s easy what would your framework be?

I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist and I'm not going to make up an answer on the spot. That doesn't mean I don't think it's some herculean task to come up with criteria, though. I'm just not the one best qualified to do it.

I also don't think surviving a suicide attempt and not trying again means a person is content to keep existing. I think sometimes it can mean they've seen the affect their troubles have on the people they love so they resolve to suffer another several decades to spare their family and friends pain.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist and I'm not going to make up an answer on the spot. That doesn't mean I don't think it's some herculean task to come up with criteria, though. I'm just not the one best qualified to do it.

I also don't think surviving a suicide attempt and not trying again means a person is content to keep existing. I think sometimes it can mean they've seen the affect their troubles have on the people they love so they resolve to suffer another several decades to spare their family and friends pain.

Your second post is interesting because it suggests that if they regret trying to kill themselves because of the impact it has on loved ones such that them personally suffering is better than family suffering. It that case a successful Maid attempt would have been a worse outcome for that individual. The key point is that eating of personal suffering vs other suffering needs to be made after the episode leading to the suicide attempt has been worked through.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

I mean, respectfully, I think Torquedog and Sliver (and others who share that sentiment) were pretty clear that they're cognisant of the situation and have their perspective on it. Not sure they need educating.

That's a general statement. Not really aimed at the posters in question. If you see what you'd perceive is an ignorant take on something that might be due to a gap in knowledge then providing insight is a more useful approach than just reacting to the statement outright.

But to respond to that, if they're cognizant maybe they should be a little more mindful in how they word their responses.

If indeed you're no stranger to things like suicide then demonstrate that level of tact that a person who understands it would possess?

I don't know what kind of reception you expected.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your second post is interesting because it suggests that if they regret trying to kill themselves because of the impact it has on loved ones such that them personally suffering is better than family suffering. It that case a successful Maid attempt would have been a worse outcome for that individual. The key point is that eating of personal suffering vs other suffering needs to be made after the episode leading to the suicide attempt has been worked through.

It's not interesting because that's not what I'm saying or how things play out.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist

Totally had me fooled

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nobody said you weren’t “allowed” to feel your big feelings. Why do people immediately go to “I’m allowed!” like children? Of course you are, you’re big boy adults, but part of being one means some people will make fun of you when you act like over-dramatic babies about things.

“This is chaos!”
“His needs before a million others!”
“Maximum #######!”

My guys, I actually take a route closed by his antics. I physically saw him with my own eyes on my commute to and from work. It cost me a whopping 5-10 minutes each way.

The problem with the whole pick-me, “we’re allowed” and “all my feelings are someone else’s responsibility” types is you end up being the same people who don’t feel like you need to follow the rules because someone else didn’t. Like, there were people really causing accidents on Memorial because they couldn’t handle the inconvenience.

The idea that you can express disdain or annoyance over someone doing something but as soon as someone expresses the same about you it’s just “we’re allowed!” is… hilarious.

Speaking of being over-dramatic, settle down, holy. You're jumping to conclusions harder than the guy sitting on the Reconciliation Bridge....


(Before any more crying happens; he got down safely, was transported to hospital, and charges may be pending.)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Speaking of being over-dramatic, settle down, holy. You're jumping to conclusions harder than the guy sitting on the Reconciliation Bridge....


(Before any more crying happens; he got down safely, was transported to hospital, and charges may be pending.)

“I’m not being dramatic! you’re being dramatic!”

Really doing your best to shake the “childish” label that came with the previous takes, huh?

[TorqueDog]

Given that I wasn't even the one expressing disdain for the inconvenience caused by the guy on the bridge -- only that I can get why Sliver was annoyed and didn't really give a crap -- have you considered just... y'know, not being this way once in a while?

Like this...

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The problem with the whole pick-me, “we’re allowed” and “all my feelings are someone else’s responsibility” types is you end up being the same people who don’t feel like you need to follow the rules because someone else didn’t. Like, there were people really causing accidents on Memorial because they couldn’t handle the inconvenience.

The idea that you can express disdain or annoyance over someone doing something but as soon as someone expresses the same about you it’s just “we’re allowed!” is… hilarious.

... really just prompts me to ask, sincerely, why can't you engage something at a normal level without having to take it to its most absurd and idiotic extreme? That schtick is well-covered already by other users, and it's tiring.

I was saying he's allowed to be annoyed and express as such, not he's allowed to play f--king "Twisted Metal" with the other commuters on Memorial Drive.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Speaking of being over-dramatic, settle down, holy. You're jumping to conclusions harder than the guy sitting on the Reconciliation Bridge....


(Before any more crying happens; he got down safely, was transported to hospital, and charges may be pending.)

Sad state our society is in when getting to a high vantage point for a good view, collecting your thoughts and maybe doing some artistic drawing gets you charged and transported to hospital.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Given that I wasn't even the one expressing disdain for the inconvenience caused by the guy on the bridge -- only that I can get why Sliver was annoyed and didn't really give a crap -- have you considered just... y'know, not being this way once in a while?

Like this...
... really just prompts me to ask, sincerely, why can't you engage something at a normal level without having to take it to its most absurd and idiotic extreme? That schtick is well-covered already by other users, and it's tiring.

I was saying he's allowed to be annoyed and express as such, not he's allowed to play f--king "Twisted Metal" with the other commuters on Memorial Drive.

Have you considered having better opinions? I’m just working with what I have and, honestly, you don’t make it easy.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I'm not ill informed in the least. I'm the guy who has had to mop up the mess of two suicides in my immediate circle after years of hand holding, helping, dropping everything at a moment's notice and then supporting people and estates through the fall out.

Your sister attempted suicide? I'm sorry to hear that. Some of us have had to deal with multiple attempts by loved ones over a span of years and then have them actually succeed. I suspect your sister's attempt was very hard on you. Okay, now imagine she does that half a dozen more times and you're the one dealing with the issues that arise around it while also trying to live your own life. Then imagine if she succeeded and all the issues that arise after that.

Sorry, your experience does not give you any authority to dictate how my experience and perceptions get to be.

I am sorry you have experienced this but I think your opinions are terrribly wrong here. I get that the other day was frustrating, and you think we should be more harsh with these folks. The problem is it’s their disease talking not them. It’s ok even to be frustrated at the inconvenience but the solutions lie far from let’s get rid of them all together. MAID is almost impossible for someone diagnosed with a severe mental illness, since by definition they can’t make that decision. So now you are letting someone else make it for them and that is a slippery, dangerous slope.

In the grand scheme of things a few people lost a few minutes of their time the other day while this was dealt with. Could’ve been a traffic accident, a chemical spill, you name it - we should all be so lucky that this was the worst thing that happened that day to us.