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Old 08-27-2015, 10:55 AM   #1
pseudoreality
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You always hear money doesn't buy happiness, but what about the family home? I'm at a crossroads when it comes to home ownership. I've got about 5 years left on my mortgage on a small bungalow and I'm trying to decide whether to upgrade or not. This past weekend I looked at a house that I loved. It had all the things that I don't presently have, garage, large MB with bathroom, large lot and even had a 700 sqft workshop/studio in the backyard. However, the thought of taking on a big mortgage made me want to puke. So I'm trying to decide if the house will make me happy or stress me out because of the debt and other added expenses?

A little added info, I'm mid-30s, married with an 18 month old daughter and big dog. My wife and I are both frugal people who don't believe in financing anything other than an education or house. Right now we invest more money than we put on the mortgage and having a large nest egg brings us comfort.

So does your house make you happy?
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:01 AM   #2
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I struggle with this question as well. There is a simple solution to your answer though since your mortgage will be paid out in 5 years you could always keep your current residence and rent it out and use that rental income to pay a large chunk of the mortgage on your new house.

This keeps the asset for future and provides you a nice steady income. If you don't like the new house and it isn't bringing you the joy you thought it would you can just sell and always have the bungalow as a backup
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Old 08-27-2015, 11:04 AM   #3
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I can't say if it makes me happy, but I know I'd be miserable without a garage.
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Old 08-27-2015, 02:28 PM   #4
Travis Munroe
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A nice big home wouldnt make me happy however a home that has everything I want does.
I live in a newer 1000 sq ft 1 bedroom condo downtown with all the bells and whistles. I love it. Previous places have always been too small or had wasted space or missed some of my key components (large ensuite, concrete, etc)

You often hear of people moving because a house is too big for their lifestyle. Rarely does one have everything they dreamed of in a smaller place inquire about selling.
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Old 08-27-2015, 03:41 PM   #5
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We recently went to a resort area on the Caribbean side of Panama. Most of the travel was by car or bus. We drove through some very small villages where the houses were the size of a Calgary bus stop shelter with a thatched straw roof. There were mothers just outside of it with their kids waiting for a bus. And guess what? They all looked happy.

We have seen some very sorry sights in regards to poverty since we moved here but unhappiness never seems to go hand in hand with it. I hope that whatever people have they appreciate and that your house or possessions don't dictate your happiness.
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Old 08-27-2015, 08:52 PM   #6
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More kids in the future? Is your job situation stable in terms of income and location?

Those are the questions I would ask. As your kid(s) grow up, you may find your needs and wants evolve over time. That 700 sq ft workshop may sound nice now, but what about 5 years from now? 10 years?

We've been grappling over whether its time to find our "forever home" -- not sure if it'll be the next house or not but location, cost, and features are all things to factor into it.

One thing I'll add: big house tends to lead to stuff to fill said big house. May not be an issue if you guys are pretty frugal/disciplined when it comes to spending but having a nice workshop leads to tools and projects and time you may ormaynotwant to invest in...

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Old 08-27-2015, 09:28 PM   #7
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make a list of the things you can't do in your current house that you would like to do. Assign a value to those things.

If the cost to have these things is less than the value they bring (or the value the equivalent money would bring) buy it. By staying in your current house you likely retire a few years sooner so is delaying retirement worth the benefits you get out of the new place.
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Old 08-28-2015, 12:11 PM   #8
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Thank you all for your comments.

Fundmark19, I was thinking of renting my current house when I upgrade. It’s in a prime location for rental (downtown) and there’s the same house down the street that rents for about 7.5% of the sale price. However, I have been reading way too much of Garth Turner’s blog and am now thinking I don’t want to overexpose myself to the real estate market. It’s probably best to be more diversified. Also, I’ve put so much work into making my existing house nice, that I don’t want renters in it. When I leave, I want to cut and run.

Realtor 1, its funny you talk about why people move (downsize/upgrade). The people selling are actually downsizing. Based on the amount of toys they have (ski-doos, quads, RV), I’m guessing they over extended themselves are now selling the one asset they have that didn’t rapidly depreciate.
Tvp2003, my job is bullet proof and I’m not sure about more kids. I’m thinking having more space can only be bonus as my kid(s) get older. I appreciate the comment about accumulating things in more space. Right now I’m already tripping over my tools. Having a workshop just means I can store them better and make better use of them.

GGG, assigning a value to things like a garage, a workshop, and an ensuite seems like an impossible task. I’m not sure how I would even go about doing that.
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Old 08-29-2015, 02:12 PM   #9
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GGG, assigning a value to things like a garage, a workshop, and an ensuite seems like an impossible task. I’m not sure how I would even go about doing that.
It's pretty easy. You start with a binary list of pros and cons, things you want and things you don't want. And I wouldn't stop at things like garages, ensuites or granite counters, I would also include things like financial stability, your freedom of not having a mortgage payment, things you like to do, not just have, etc. Then once you've got the list you need to start ranking them and ascribing values to them. Honestly, if you're going to go from no mortgage to a mortgage, you really need to make sure you're going to be happier for it.
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Old 08-29-2015, 05:04 PM   #10
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And to answer the original question, a bigger house, along with a bigger mortgage has never been a driving factor towards my happiness. I think that generally people have a baseline of comfort required to keep them happy and every bit above that provides diminishing returns. If you're not comfortable in your house, then yes, an upgrade will probably make you happier. But if you're buying a McMansion just for the sake of having more room, I don't think it will be as big a factor as you might expect. Bigger space to clean, less money to play with every month, more space to fill.

Really, though, each individual will experience different results.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:03 AM   #11
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Assigning a value to material is an impossible task. It's all about what you are "willing" to pay or do to acquire that material. I have a lady who bought and paid for a AWD car but she actually didn't realize she had an AWD car. Sounds like you can afford a bigger house, then the next question I would ask myself is, if I'm "willing" to pay for it.
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Old 09-05-2015, 12:33 PM   #12
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I struggle with this too as i look at my 60p sqft 1bdrm. I am quite comfy here, but a second bedroom and bath would be great. And it might as well have underground parking. But at the same time...my all in costs right now are $1100 per month. So cheap. So would i rather have a bigger place or an extra 800 per month. Not an easy answer
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:34 PM   #13
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I wish I could live in a nice 750 sqft 2 bdr condo downtown with a view, but also have a 500 sqft garage.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:48 PM   #14
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I used to live and work in a 400 square foot condo, and if I didn't get married and have kids, I probably would still be there. I was pretty content living there, and it was nice to not have a ton of stuff. The only thing I really pined for was garage space.

Living in a house now is really nice, but there sure are a lot more responsibilities...both financially and maintenance wise. You spend a lot more of your time just taking care of thing around the house, or working to pay it off. I don't think its made me any happier, and I kind of miss the simpler condo days, but having kids and working out of a condo was just not realistic anymore.

Once the kids are out of the house, I actually wouldn't mind a smaller place again. But I still want a bigger garage.
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:57 PM   #15
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GGG, assigning a value to things like a garage, a workshop, and an ensuite seems like an impossible task. I’m not sure how I would even go about doing that.
It's the engineer in me that assigns numerical value to everything. But one thing you can due is take the cost say $1000 per month that you woukd pay for these things and decide what else you can do with that money and which you value more.

Whether that's vacation, security, early retirement, paying for your kids college, vehicles or even just inheritance for grandkids. if you don't spend the money on a house you will eventually spend it on something. So is that something worth more to you then the other things.
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:40 AM   #16
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Yeah, I wrestle with this as well. We had a fairly big house in a new neighbourhood for five years. Bonus room, finished basement, ensuite with a shower and separate soaker tub, jack & jill bathrooms for the kids, random bathrooms everywhere, etc.

Now I live in a smaller bungalow in Bonavista with a half-bath for an ensuite, small walk-in closet, small living room, small dining room, small bedrooms, small main bathroom, etc. We've updated some things, but it'll never be as big/nice as my old house. I definitely miss the old house, but the new neigbourhood is a million times better and that has - I believe - made us happier.

We spend way less time commuting or even driving to things. Before we moved from the bigger house, we considered moving to a smaller city like Kelowna that had a lot of recreation opportunities close at hand. We decided to stay in Calgary, though, and move to a lake community here. That is the best of all worlds. You get the conveniences and economy of Calgary (which was great up until recently), plus all the perks of a smaller city when you find a neighbourhood that you never really have to leave.

What I really want is my old house in my new, established neighbourhood. That's the dream, but my priorities right now are on giving myself the opportunity to enjoy an early/nice retirement, so I prefer to save more and not to sink more than necessary into a bigger house. Ultimately, I think this will pay off. My kids are 8 and 9 right now. I won't have to downsize when they move out, and the house is big enough to handle all four of us throughout their upbringing.

I wish I had never owned the new big house, though. It would be better to not know what I'm missing, hah.

Last edited by Sliver; 09-09-2015 at 08:48 AM. Reason: edit: Just realized that the top sentence sounds totally like bragging. Bought in '02 for $240k. Things were cheap back then!
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:48 AM   #17
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It's an individual choice/decision (and not a static decision either).
I've lived in homes that I owned from a 600 sq ft condo, a mobile home, a bungalow, and now to a massive two storey. Those decisions were based on finances versus wants/needs at the time. I think the key factor is - regardless of what a person chooses, if they invest carefully and wisely, it can pay significant financial dividends (as well as personal).
We have become home people now, after spending years out and about exploring our local, national and international world - and our home is now an extension of that lifestyle.
That said, we are considering moving again, and are seriously considering a move like Sliver made - simply for some convenience/practical purposes. I kind of doubt we will ultimately downsize though - I think it truly is hard to go back once one has become accustomed to a huge home.
Great advice here, btw. Good luck in your decision
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:59 AM   #18
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Lots of good points!

Currently my s/o and I live in a 1600 sq/ft 4 bedroom condo. We'd LOVE to move soon and intend to as the renos are almost done. I've often thought about the size of a new house as it will always just be the two of us.

I think we'd worry less about the size of the home and instead focus more on the size of the lot. We quite like the condo we are in now, the only drawback is it only has a single car garage and the backyard is basically a deck. I decent sized house with a good sized backyard would be ideal for us. Each time we go down to friends places in newer south communities I'm blown away by how houses are mashed together with tiny backyards that aren't a hell of a lot better than what we have now. Avoiding that will be priority #1 for us.

And I'll echo what others have said, it's not so much the size but what's in it that counts. Having a 2 car garage is going to be a HUGE plus for us. Also having a good sized workshop for me would be awesome as well as a big office/hobby room for her. I think the ideal situation for us would be a comfortable sized bungalow on a big a lot as we can afford. Would be VERY odd sleeping on the ground floor but I really like how bungalows utilize floor space and they usually have a nice sized basement. I think a bungalow with walkout basement would be perfect.

I think we will be looking at a ton of homes before we buy.

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Old 09-18-2015, 01:48 AM   #19
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Slava,

You needed to sound humble by knocking the worst Safeway in the universe in Bonavista.

Fish Creek access in that community is unbelievable. I think they have it open from the floods. You have the beautiful lake. The Lakehouse restaurant which is stumbling distance if you choose your battle ( they do a good job ).

So here is my questions for you:
1) Do you really feel that the big house with all the space was quality space. Wasn't it a noisy home compared to what you have now?
2) Do you find that a closer space makes the family closer together?
3) Bonavista is a kick ass community, is your garage still there? Wish I could've met you when I lived there.
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Old 09-18-2015, 09:43 AM   #20
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Slava,

You needed to sound humble by knocking the worst Safeway in the universe in Bonavista.

Fish Creek access in that community is unbelievable. I think they have it open from the floods. You have the beautiful lake. The Lakehouse restaurant which is stumbling distance if you choose your battle ( they do a good job ).

So here is my questions for you:
1) Do you really feel that the big house with all the space was quality space. Wasn't it a noisy home compared to what you have now?
2) Do you find that a closer space makes the family closer together?
3) Bonavista is a kick ass community, is your garage still there? Wish I could've met you when I lived there.
1) I don't feel the space in the bigger house was wasted. I like finishings in new homes more than in older homes. I had those rounded edges on all the corners (bull edges or something?). Loved my huge ensuite. Loved the open main floor. Bonus room was spectacular with 12' high ceilings.

I snuck in during the build process all the time and did a bunch of extra stuff like sound proof insulation between bedrooms, pre-wired bonus room for stereo system, cat5 cable throughout the house, etc. I liked the extra bathrooms. I liked having two sinks in the bathroom. I liked 9' ceilings on the main floor. I liked having a vacu-flo kick plate I could just sweep messes into. I liked how the floors didn't creak. I liked the maintenance holiday where I wasn't always planning the next project.

We built the old house from scratch and planned everything to be just the way we like it. I upgraded a lot of the fixtures, appliances, railings, doors, moldings, etc. to make it perfect, and it was. I planted a bunch of trees in the backyard and they're looking awesome now.

The problem was, though, that I didn't understand how important location is at the time. The advice I'm going to give my kids is to buy a new house in the burbs for their first house, but not to upgrade everything like I did. You don't really get your money out of that. A new house is great for young people with a limited budget because you don't have to worry about maintenance. You won't need a roof, windows, hot water tank, furnace, etc. You can basically have a maintenance budget of $0 per year and be fine.

2) I don't think the closer quarters make us closer as a family. I'm slowly working on bringing the standard of my new house up to my old-house standard. Basement is pretty much done the way I want with a nice big bathroom, heated floor, nice fireplace, upgraded staircase, etc. Upstairs we still have a ways to go.

3) Yes, garage in my new place is awesome and I never want to give that up, hah. I had so much fun building it, too. It's kind of a bummer that there's nothing left to do in there

So I sound pretty down on my house, but I do really like it. Just not as much as my old house. I think in 5-7 years, though, my new house will be better than my old house. We have some really cool plans that we're saving up for and it will ultimately be a great size for my whole life if we choose to stay here.

What really has made us happy is the neighbourhood. We're active people, partly because of where we live. My neighbour told me we look like a Participation commercial. We'll do a bike ride in Fish Creek, come home and have lunch. Then walk over to the lake for a swim. Then play tennis there in the afternoon. Then hit Brewster's for wings. In the winter we'll skate around the lake, or around the bonfire, or toboggan down the hill. I honestly believe you could live a very happy, fulfilling life without ever leaving Bonavista. That, to me, is way more important than a fancy bathroom or higher ceilings. So when you ask specific questions about the physical home, there's no doubt the old one was better. But my new lifestyle and neighbourhood are better and are well worth the trade off - no regrets whatsoever about the move.
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