Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think his point was that the reaction/restrictions to terrorist threats vs homegrown gun violence are completely disproportionate to the human cost of each.

Can you imagine the reaction if 9/11 happened every month?
Surprise: you don't have to. Nearly that many people are killed every month in the U.S.

But they talk about banning Muslims, attacking Islam, protecting everyone from the terrorists... and let their own (much more serious and deadly) issue fester on.

Guns aren't a problem as they are a part of the constitution, one could show any amount of stats,numbers and truths but in the end the people of the USA believe Islam is a far bigger problem than their constitutional right to have guns. Actually I would bet a lot of guns were bought since 9-11 to protect against Islamic terrorism.

Sorry but that one "little" act of september terror changed the way the west looks at a religion. Islam will not be respected by the west until the muslim moderates find a way to defeat the perverted/backwards and crazy sec of Islam.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Guns aren't a problem as they are a part of the constitution, one could show any amount of stats,numbers and truths but in the end the people of the USA believe Islam is a far bigger problem than their constitutional right to have guns. Actually I would bet a lot of guns were bought since 9-11 to protect against Islamic terrorism.

Sorry but that one "little" act of september terror changed the way the west looks at a religion. Islam will not be respected by the west until the muslim moderates find a way to defeat the perverted/backwards and crazy sec of Islam.

In summation: Facts don't matter, only perception.

Yeah, I know, that's the problem.

White nationalists make it their bread and butter. When one could show "any amount of stats,numbers and truths" and be ignored in favor of a boogeyman made bigger by racists and bigots who prey on the weak-minded, then that's not really a defence of guns, that's an indictment of those people.

It's a shame one "little" act of september terror 16 years ago changed the way the west looks at religion, but the equivalent of 12+ "little" acts of gun violence that happen every year hasn't made a difference.

But stats and truth are rarely as powerful as the hate that forms racism and bigotry. Too bad.

Deaths of Americans from Terrorist Attacks (Worldwide) since 2001: 158
Deaths of Americans from Gun Homicide (U.S. only) since 2011-15: 57,822

Not including suicide, death by cop, or accidental deaths, there are (on average) 11,000 gun deaths per year, which means there have been 111,392% more homicides related to guns (in the U.S. alone) than there have been American homicide related to terrorism (in the entire world) since 2001.

Too bad, I guess.

[ASP#26525]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Deaths of Americans from Terrorist Attacks (Worldwide) since 2001: 158
Deaths of Americans from Gun Homicide (U.S. only) since 2011-15: 57,822

May I ask where you got these numbers?

[Snuffleupagus]

16 people shot(1 dead) in a Cincinnati nightclub and it doesn't even make the CP US mass shooting thread(until now)

What's now considered a "mass shooting"? 20? maybe it takes 50? more than one dead?

Originally Posted by ASP#26525

May I ask where you got these numbers?

If you don't believe him Google is your friend if you care to look it up.

One quick search showed me 13,286 people were killed and another 26,819 people were injured in gun crimes in 2015, and that doesn't count suicides and numbers are low as the figures were released in Nov by the FBI.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

16 people shot(1 dead) in a Cincinnati nightclub and it doesn't even make the CP US mass shooting thread(until now)

What's now considered a "mass shooting"? 20? maybe it takes 50? more than one dead?


If you don't believe him Google is your friend if you care to look it up.

One quick search showed me 13,286 people were killed and another 26,819 people were injured in gun crimes in 2015, and that doesn't count suicides and numbers are low as the figures were released in Nov by the FBI.

My girlfriend told me about this this morning and the only thing I thought was 'huh. Only one dead. Coulda been worse'.

Then we went to the park with the dog. No sense crying over this if the Americans won't.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In summation: Facts don't matter, only perception.

Yeah, I know, that's the problem.

White nationalists make it their bread and butter. When one could show "any amount of stats,numbers and truths" and be ignored in favor of a boogeyman made bigger by racists and bigots who prey on the weak-minded, then that's not really a defence of guns, that's an indictment of those people.

It's a shame one "little" act of september terror 16 years ago changed the way the west looks at religion, but the equivalent of 12+ "little" acts of gun violence that happen every year hasn't made a difference.

But stats and truth are rarely as powerful as the hate that forms racism and bigotry. Too bad.

Deaths of Americans from Terrorist Attacks (Worldwide) since 2001: 158
Deaths of Americans from Gun Homicide (U.S. only) since 2011-15: 57,822

Not including suicide, death by cop, or accidental deaths, there are (on average) 11,000 gun deaths per year, which means there have been 111,392% more homicides related to guns (in the U.S. alone) than there have been American homicide related to terrorism (in the entire world) since 2001.

Too bad, I guess.

The "little" act of Terrorism that killed 3000 on 9-11 opened a view point, before that the Americans didn't care much if Muslim's repressed woman, chopped off the hand of a kid stealing an apple, threw a gay person off a 6 story building or even chopped off the head of someone who dared to denounce Islam.

Americans are ok if they kill each other with guns because it's "their" way, hell, more people die from drinking "Pepsi" (username pun) than terrorism but again it's ok as it's their way. But when one American dies for something they don't believe in all hell breaks loose.

Need proof? look who is now president!

In my opinion: If Islam wants to migrate to the west and be accepted it needs some huge changes because too much of it's teachings will never be accepted.

[wittynickname]

I'm pretty sure if you search through the OT forum, there used to be a thread about the issues with Islam, it's a topic that probably doesn't need to be hashed out here.

It's pretty remarkable that you had a shooting that shut down half of the Las Vegas strip and then this shooting in Cincinnati happened and neither really made a blurb in national news. I guess we're at a point where only mass casualties are worth headlines now.

[foshizzle11]

ya, it is sad and likely that it isn't "big" news unless more people die. It is ludicrous that it takes a massive death toll to matter, but it is reality.

I was shocked to see that these things happened this weekend. Nobody I know is talking about either. My family and friends visit Vegas regularly, if they were there for this event, they would have been talking about it. I have colleagues in Cin, and I hope they don't know anyone affected, but I won't find out until tomorrow.

Small world but these events are becoming less isolated.

[Tsawwassen]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

16 people shot(1 dead) in a Cincinnati nightclub and it doesn't even make the CP US mass shooting thread(until now)

What's now considered a "mass shooting"? 20? maybe it takes 50? more than one dead?

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

My girlfriend told me about this this morning and the only thing I thought was 'huh. Only one dead. Coulda been worse'.

Then we went to the park with the dog. No sense crying over this if the Americans won't.

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

ya, it is sad and likely that it isn't "big" news unless more people die. It is ludicrous that it takes a massive death toll to matter, but it is reality.

I was shocked to see that these things happened this weekend. Nobody I know is talking about either. My family and friends visit Vegas regularly, if they were there for this event, they would have been talking about it. I have colleagues in Cin, and I hope they don't know anyone affected, but I won't find out until tomorrow.

Small world but these events are becoming less isolated.

It's believed that there's more than 1 shooter. http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ohio-nightclub-shooting-1.4041597

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

One quick search showed me 13,286 people were killed and another 26,819 people were injured in gun crimes in 2015

Wow, over 36 deaths a day. Americans should be horrified.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

Wow, over 36 deaths a day. Americans should be horrified.

Fake news, Mexicans and Muslims is the real news and what they should be horrified of.

[ASP#26525]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

If you don't believe him Google is your friend if you care to look it up.

One quick search showed me 13,286 people were killed and another 26,819 people were injured in gun crimes in 2015, and that doesn't count suicides and numbers are low as the figures were released in Nov by the FBI.

I was more interested in the terrorist deaths, to be honest. It's not that I don't believe him, I'm a physicist and want to know if I should trust the source he used. One quick search brought up a CNN article that lists 3412 deaths (including 9/11, 416 deaths not including 9/11, and only up to Sept 2014) so I was wondering where his numbers came from and asked an open question rather than be accusatory. I'm not sure I'd trust CNN either, but his number of 158 seemed very low to me.

[CroFlames]

What does being a physicist have to do with a guys source? If the sources is legit, then it's legit.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What does being a physicist have to do with a guys source? If the sources is legit, then it's legit.

Gotta admit though that 158 terrorist deaths number seemed low to me too. I don't think it's accurate.

The Orlando nightclub event had 49 (I'd count this as terrorism, not gun deaths?), and then the 2015 Paris attacks had 130 alone.

That 158 has to be higher, but the point remains that whatever it is, it's not going to be anywhere close to the rate and viciousness Americans kill themselves.

Americans and guns today are like North Koreans and their deplorable standard of living. Somebody in this thread said (paraphrasing) "guess I don't feel bad because if Americans don't do something about it, not sure we should care". Immediately I thought of North Koreans. Why don't they rise up and overthrow the government? Don't they understand how bad it is? The answer is no, they don't get it. So I do feel bad for Americans in the same way I feel bad for North Koreans, they just don't get it.

If the US army was in combat and lose 30-80 soldiers in a skirmish that would be considered a tragedy. I'm not sure why it isn't viewed the same way on the streets of Chicago.. It's disgusting actually. One of the things Trump said that I actually agree with is mobilizing the National Guard or Army into some of these areas where gangs are just killing each other, and dedicating some federal resources to stopping these war zones that are within the USA and largely going ignored.

[CaptainCrunch]

Little off topic but what's going on in Ontario?

http://globalnews.ca/news/3333517/ev...o-study-warns/

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The Orlando nightclub event had 49 (I'd count this as terrorism, not gun deaths?),

why?

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What does being a physicist have to do with a guys source? If the sources is legit, then it's legit.

There is a problem with his data though, which is why he should provide his source. If you use the FBI's homicide information, there were 43,932 firearm homicides in the US from 2011-2015

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s..._2011-2015.xls

There is also a large variance in the terrorism deaths he stated. This source shows 3,068 terrorism related deaths for the period 2001-2014, much higher than the stated 158, even without counting 2015-2016.

https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START...et_Oct2015.pdf

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

why?

The gunman had known Isis links and it's been reported from a few sources as a "terror attack".

[ASP#26525]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

What does being a physicist have to do with a guys source? If the sources is legit, then it's legit.

It has nothing to do with his source but everything to do with why I asked the question to begin with.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

There is also a large variance in the terrorism deaths he stated. This source shows 3,068 terrorism related deaths for the period 2001-2014, much higher than the stated 158, even without counting 2015-2016.

https://www.start.umd.edu/pubs/START...et_Oct2015.pdf

I'll probably get jumped on this because its obvious, but one count includes 9/11; the other doesn't.