Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by tussery

They tried to pass a stand alone bill and it did not get support. Then it was attached to another bill, but it was found to be illegally attached, and campus carry died. UT and Texas A&M strongly oppose concealed carry on their campuses and spoke out against the original bill.

There has been some talk around here that even though Alabama doesn't allow you to conceal carry on campus they can't really do anything about it. If they found you with a weapon they can kick you out in their student handbook but by law, since they're a public school, they can't legally do anything if you have a permit.

Here in Alabama if you are Open Carrying and you go into a building and the owner asks you to put the weapon away you must. If you decide not to do that then you're breaking the law of trespassing. Alabama you're allowed to open carry a weapon with out a permit. If you get into a car you must have a permit and if your shirt covers any bit of the pistol then you must need a permit.

Monday I'm going to an Open Carry meeting where the Assistant DA and Tuscaloosa Captain will be on hand giving everyone what is legal about carrying.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Once you remove the gun support network, no ammunition being produced and sold etc, add a reletively lengthy sentance for illegal possesion and an amnesty procedure for owners to bring in guns what would happen is in the first few years millions of guns would be picked up very quickly, the vast majority of guns in the US sit in cupboards never being used, those owners, not being hardcore NRA or criminals prepared to risk jail would just bring them in to the cops right of the bat, they did this in the UK after the war when people in the UK had as many guns as those in the US.
.
As the supply got smaller the relative value of guns would get higher, this alone would virtually eliminate most of the US's deaths as even those that had guns would be very carefull not to have them found.

All of this presupposes the the american public supported the law due to some dreadfull massacre or the like, I don't think it will happen as the average US citizen really believes their gun keeps them safe even though every rational study says otherwise.

I'm not sure because I'm lazy and don't feel like searching. Does the UK have the likes of the crips? Bloods? Latin Kings? ms13? and all the other violent gangs? The US has an a extreme gang problem that it seems that no other country has.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Actually if you enacted strict gun control with heavy penalties, add in an amnesty and a buy back program and you would, over the course of a few years, rapidly at first, more slowely in the end bring in most guns, even before you got them all they would become very expensive, as they are in Canada, and therefore unlikely to be used against the 'general public'.
We have a crap load of illegal guns up here and a deadly gang war going on in Vancouver, but I, as a non criminal, am completely safe.

It just wouldn't happen, there would be another revolution in this country over it.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Wow I guess I was hopeful it'd be a lowish number of 35-40 million. 270 million?!?!? There aren't that many adults in America!

I account for four firearms now, hopefully I get an ar15 soon and another pistol chambered in the .357 Sig

[missdpuck]

My area had a terrible problem with a violent gang called Top 6. It's primarily a Haitian gang involved in hip-hop/rap production and promotion when they're not selling drugs and killing people. The thing is, in South Florida (as in many other places) the "hood" is only a few blocks away from the "nice" section in many areas, especially in the older sections of town. I used to deliver mail in the 'hood in Delray Beach where being a second away from getting shot wasn't unusual. There was a lot of tension between AA and Haitian gangs/drug dealers.

PIMking, a friend of mine is moving to Anniston, AL. Apparently it's a small town. If you get a chance, check out a book called Silent in the Land. Love those ancient live oak trees as well as the old houses!

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I'm not sure because I'm lazy and don't feel like searching. Does the UK have the likes of the crips? Bloods? Latin Kings? ms13? and all the other violent gangs? The US has an a extreme gang problem that it seems that no other country has.

I wonder if American gun culture, and American gun legislation, which also seem to be unique among western states, has anything to do with that "extreme gang problem"?

[T@T]

Just wondering.

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution states,"the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

This has always bugged me,if it's meant to be literal wouldn't that mean "any" arms? If I was a citizen of the USA and had the means shouldn't it be legal for me to have a missile launcher,an anti-tank weapon, a grenade launcher or WTF why not even a nuke?

If the answer is restrictive weapons..why not make handguns restrictive?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

My area had a terrible problem with a violent gang called Top 6. It's primarily a Haitian gang involved in hip-hop/rap production and promotion when they're not selling drugs and killing people. The thing is, in South Florida (as in many other places) the "hood" is only a few blocks away from the "nice" section in many areas, especially in the older sections of town. I used to deliver mail in the 'hood in Delray Beach where being a second away from getting shot wasn't unusual. There was a lot of tension between AA and Haitian gangs/drug dealers.

PIMking, a friend of mine is moving to Anniston, AL. Apparently it's a small town. If you get a chance, check out a book called Silent in the Land. Love those ancient live oak trees as well as the old houses!

I didn't know you lived in South Florida, I grew up on the good side of the state in Ft. Myers

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by T@T

Just wondering.

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution states,"the right of the people to keep and bear arms"

This has always bugged me,if it's meant to be literal wouldn't that mean "any" arms? If I was a citizen of the USA and had the means shouldn't it be legal for me to have a missile launcher,an anti-tank weapon, a grenade launcher or WTF why not even a nuke?

If the answer is restrictive weapons..why not make handguns restrictive?

I believe that the 2nd amendment also has something to do with the right to protect oneself from threats that are either from the public or the government. Our constitution is worded to for people to protect themselves from our government too.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for firearms, however I believe that they need to be regulated. I've been hog hunting (which is AWESOME) but most of my weapons are for killing paper. There is a 1000 yard shoot coming up that I might take part in.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I'm not sure because I'm lazy and don't feel like searching. Does the UK have the likes of the crips? Bloods? Latin Kings? ms13? and all the other violent gangs? The US has an a extreme gang problem that it seems that no other country has.



It just wouldn't happen, there would be another revolution in this country over it.

It had the IRA, plus various other gangs, hells angels jamaican posses's etc, Canada also has the same gangs to some degree ot other, the reason the US's gangs are a problem is because they are all heavily armed due to your non existant gun laws. You are mistaking the effect for the cause.

I also agree it won't happen, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done, just that americans are so firmly taught to believe their own bullcrap that they cannot concieve anything else.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

It had the IRA, plus various other gangs, hells angels jamaican posses's etc, Canada also has the same gangs to some degree ot other, the reason the US's gangs are a problem is because they are all heavily armed due to your non existant gun laws. You are mistaking the effect for the cause.

I also agree it won't happen, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be done, just that americans are so firmly taught to believe their own bullcrap that they cannot concieve anything else.

I really disagree with the high lighted because most of those gangs are using guns that have been smuggled into the country or are part of the illegal gun market.

I'm all for gun laws governing "legally purchased" guns. but if that happens then you also have to find a way to deal with the illegal guns.

That to me is why you need extremely punitive gun laws and punishment for crimes involving weapons.

but its pretty rare that you see a member of the Crips or Bloods or Hells Angels going into a gun shop, filling our the forms and waiting for the release period.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I really disagree with the high lighted because most of those gangs are using guns that have been smuggled into the country or are part of the illegal gun market.

I'm all for gun laws governing "legally purchased" guns. but if that happens then you also have to find a way to deal with the illegal guns.

That to me is why you need extremely punitive gun laws and punishment for crimes involving weapons.

but its pretty rare that you see a member of the Crips or Bloods or Hells Angels going into a gun shop, filling our the forms and waiting for the release period.

There is little to no gun smugling into the US, their illegal gun market is wholly driven by legal firearms being sold ilegally, guns are so readily available through theft or just paying someone to buy a gun for you.

And gang members go out and buy guns legally like everyone else, grind or burn off the serial number and it becomes untraceable.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I didn't know you lived in South Florida, I grew up on the good side of the state in Ft. Myers

I live 5 mins south of Palm Bch. I will probably move to the Everglades restoration area just north of Lake O.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

There is little to no gun smugling into the US, their illegal gun market is wholly driven by legal firearms being sold ilegally, guns are so readily available through theft or just paying someone to buy a gun for you.

And gang members go out and buy guns legally like everyone else, grind or burn off the serial number and it becomes untraceable.

LOL.....no they REALLY dont.

[jayswin]

I don't want to come off as an ignorant Canadian when I say this, but it is honestly unbelievable to me that a nation of people that are so like us have citizens just walking the streets with guns. It's actually hard for me to even imagine it in my head.

I just try and picture a guy in Canada walking into a store with a pistol at his side, and it seems so unrealistic and insane, and yet it's completely acceptable in many places down there.

[jayswin]

Haha, which reminds me of my last job, where I was showing a customer how something works, and he bent down to take a closer look, and exposed a gun in a holster.

I took two steps back and went "Are you f-ing kidding me!!?". He said "Excuse me?". I said "You have a f-ing gun, I saw it when you bent down!!"

He then showed me his badge, turns out he was a plain clothes police officer. Needless to say, I was pretty embarassed at my reaction.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I don't doubt gang members are acquiring legal guns illegally, but no way do they identify themselves voluntarily into a government database. They are criminals after all.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

LOL.....no they REALLY dont.

Disagree.

Gangs get a lot of their guns by getting "clean" members to buy them,then the gun suddenly gets stolen and it starts all over again. A cop friend of mine in Vegas said it's the single most popular way for gangs to get their guns as they don't want one that may have been involved in a crime.

As of a few years ago they were starting a nationwide database to red flag anyone who reported more than one stolen gun.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I believe that the 2nd amendment also has something to do with the right to protect oneself from threats that are either from the public or the government. Our constitution is worded to for people to protect themselves from our government too.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for firearms, however I believe that they need to be regulated. I've been hog hunting (which is AWESOME) but most of my weapons are for killing paper. There is a 1000 yard shoot coming up that I might take part in.

For me, that part has always invalidated the current applicability of the constitutional stance towards guns.

Anyone who thinks that they can ward off today's government with their own personal stash is by definition crazy and should be banned from purchasing guns.

[moon]

Originally Posted by T@T

Disagree.

Gangs get a lot of their guns by getting "clean" members to buy them,then the gun suddenly gets stolen and it starts all over again. A cop friend of mine in Vegas said it's the single most popular way for gangs to get their guns as they don't want one that may have been involved in a crime.

As of a few years ago they were starting a nationwide database to red flag anyone who reported more than one stolen gun.

That doesn't sound like they are getting the guns legally if they are getting others to buy them and then lie about them being stolen.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I don't doubt gang members are acquiring legal guns illegally, but no way do they identify themselves voluntarily into a government database. They are criminals after all.

States allow 'gunshows' where there is minimal checking of any one, have state ID and you can buy a gun, there is no database or the like and it is all legal and above board.

Its actually a pretty good way to get a gun if you are a canadian as well, just hang around a stall making appropriate noises about damned facist canadian goverment won't let me defend myself from (insert appropriate racial invective, depending on the race of the seller) and there is a good chance he/she will overlook your canadian license for a hefty increase in the price, gun shows and private sales are virtually unregulated.