I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[Dan403]

Dumb Thread is Dumb.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Can you cite some trades involving 33 year old defencemen with five years left at $6.75 mil? Or 34 year old defencemen with four years left at $6.75? Or 35 year old defencemen with three years left at $6.75?

Different player for sure but Chris Probger comes to mind immediately. And I wouldn't even look at the same return as he got.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by polak

That's not how it works. Treliving is supposed to do moves that work not just moves that media and fans like. If this team is regressing than Tre is on the hot seat, regardless of what people thought of the moves at the time.

No for sure, if the team undergoes a massive regression then BT should feel some heat. He should be feeling pressure (and I'm 100% he is) for the GG hire whcih so far looks terrible. But the season is two weeks old and GM's need to get judged on longer period intervals than any other part of the hockey team IMO.

I'm mostly cracking back at the multiple pages of GMs in waiting that clearly knew what the right moves to make were. Internet revisionist history at its best.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanStrandedInEDM

I have always found he had the arrogance of a much more experienced General Manager.

I was disappointed that they didn't re-sign both Colborne and Nak at the reasonable salaries they would demand.

His pride is his biggest flaw, his need to "Win" every negotiation has lead to decent, affordable, serviceable, NHL players walking out the door.

These are not players begging for work, they will and have found work elsewhere, so they "Well that's my final offer, take it or leave it" doesn't really hold much clout.

You don't know if his pride is affecting anything at all. In fact, I took it as Colborne's pride was hurt during those negotiations. Treliving came out and hinted that the Flames' offer was higher than what Colborne took in Colorado.

I was all for re-signing Colborne, as I think he was a developing player, even considering his age. He seemed to finally start taking big steps with regards to using his body, and was becoming a sorely-lacking net-front presence for the team. I was hugely disappointed that he wasn't re-signed, but at the same time, I can't pin the blame on Treliving as I have no idea what went on during those negotiations. If Colborne did indeed take less to play in Colorado than in Calgary leads me to believe that Treliving had a firm and fair price in his mind, and that Colborne's pride was what got in the way on that one.

With Nakladal, I just saw it as him blinking first. Treliving was not going to sign any more free agents - especially of the depth variety - until Gaudreau was re-signed and they could figure out how much they had left over. That is probably why the only contract offered was the 2-way. Had he waited a few more days, I bet it was Nakladal that would have been re-signed, rather than Grossman.

Let's say you are right, and his pride is indeed getting in the way - that's ok too. I would rather the Flames lock-up their top talent to decent contracts, and let everyone else go and replace them with cheaper contracts. That is really the landscape of the NHL now. Serviceable means they can do the job at a cheap (or cheaper) cap hit. You get into big trouble over-paying for bottom 6 forwards and bottom pair defencemen.

I wish Colborne was on the team, but I don't know what that price point was. It was higher than Colorado's price.

I really wish Byron was on this team - he was a great PK'er and checking player, and I think he would have been doing really well on the Backlund and Frolik line, and I think losing him was Treliving's biggest error so far (or the Raymond signing). It is still not something you sweat over either.

No GM is perfect. Even at the height of "Trust in Sutter" years, he still let Lydman go, and passed on Stralman.

Go to a Detroit forum, and fans are extremely fed up with Holland.

I look at Treliving's body of work, and I can't say it is perfect (it most certainly is not) but it is definitely more positive than it is negative.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Look at all the Holly Hindsights here.

People hated Colborne when he was here, BT let him go and now that was huge mistake.
People loved Ortio so much they ranked him as the 3rd best propsect on the Flames and wouldn't have exposed him to waivers at any cost. But now this bizarre idea that the "three headed goalie" monster sunk last years season is all on BT even though most of you would've done the same thing.
Gio contract was met with near unanimous approval but now it's an anchor.
FFS, Hartley took a tonne of heat here too, but now that the team came out slow he's freaking Quenneville or something.

It's amazing how obivous moves seem to be 3 months, 6 months, 1 year out from when they were made. Too bad that's not how life works

No it wasn't. There was a lot of fanboy cheer-leading but a significant amount that it was a lots of money and term for a 33 year old d-man.

[News] Mark Giordano Extension Done! 6 years, $40.5 million ($6.75 million AAV)

[killer_carlson]

How do you hold a GM accountable for mistakes without firing them?

I don't know the answer, but i'd like to know there are some discussions occurring.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Dumb Thread is Dumb.

Agreed. Going into the season, every pundit, fan and analyst believed this team was assembled the right way. Perhaps the only missing piece was a really good top line RW.

Why should Treliving take heat for that?

The players and coaching staff need to be taking heat, and they are.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Agreed. Going into the season, every pundit, fan and analyst believed this team was assembled the right way. Perhaps the only missing piece was a really good top line RW.

Why should Treliving take heat for that?

The players and coaching staff need to be taking heat, and they are.

Who put together this roster and hired the coaching staff? Treliving should definitely be on the hot seat if the team continues to play poorly, he said he expected the team to compete for a playoff spot this year.

[JiriHrdina]

So I guess it depends on whether or not you think the Flames are just a cruddy hockey team, or a hockey team that is better than they are playing.
If one believes the former, then yes, it is on the GM.

I believe that organizations that struggle consistently do so, in part, due to the fact that there isn't consistency at the top. GMs don't have the opportunity to build a team over the long-term. They are hired and fired too quickly.

Personally, I think BT is a good hockey mind, a hard worker and leaves no stone un-turned. I don't want to see him swapped out for some other guy and then we are starting from square 1 again.

Consistency please.

[jlh2640]

I believe they are better then how they are playing but also believe they are young and are still rebuilding.

[locsofblu]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

I believe they are better then how they are playing but also believe they are young and are still rebuilding.

We are a cap team and year 4 in the rebuild. Yes they're some young pieces but I doubt Treliving thought we would be this bad.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by locsofblu

We are a cap team.

Which says it all. However with Smid, Wideman, Engelland, Versteeg, Grossman and Bollig all gone for next year we have some room. Elliott and Bennett may take some of that space. However we are not a team who is ready to compete clearly.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Why should Treliving take heat for that?

The players and coaching staff need to be taking heat, and they are.

You can't have one without the other.
The GM is responsible for the players and coaching staff we have. If something it lacking there, it's the GM who played a large part in it.

Having said that, I personally think Treliving has done more good then bad. This coaching hire was and is a mess though, and he deserves the heat for that.

[locsofblu]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Which says it all. However with Smid, Wideman, Engelland, Versteeg, Grossman and Bollig all gone for next year we have some room. Elliott and Bennett may take some of that space. However we are not a team who is ready to compete clearly.

This is true. Hopefully we can spend the money wisely on actually useful pieces. I like Treliving as Gm but I'm not 100% he has the hockey knowledge to make us a contender. Time will tell.

[Bingo]

April 28, 2014

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

How do you hold a GM accountable for mistakes without firing them?

I don't know the answer, but i'd like to know there are some discussions occurring.

Loss of autonomy. If we assume Gulutzan's hire is all Treliving, then we can be certain that Burke and others will play a significant role in hiring the next coach once the team decides on putting a bad mistake in the past. That is not often a good thing - too many cooks - but hard to argue it could be worse at this point.

[Macho0978]

I think Flames fans are going through what Oiler fans went through for the last couple years. Expectation went up too quickly as we started to develop some young talent. Most people said this was going to be a 5 year rebuild and the Flames are now in that spot where on paper we look a lot better but really we don't stack up against the best teams yet. I said before the season I believed this would be the last year of the rebuild and I'm sticking with that. IMO there is too much wasted cap space at this point to expect big things and guys like Bennett and Tkachuk are way to young to expect big production.

Next year if things aren't working I would think BT would start to take some heat. Too early to blame him and there are still a ton of positives with the team and its future. Stockton's play along with Tkachuk's play should have flames fans excited. Gaudreau and Monahan will get going soon. Bennett has stepped up a bit this year as well. It's part of the process not every young player scores 70 points before they hit 22

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Loss of autonomy. If we assume Gulutzan's hire is all Treliving, then we can be certain that Burke and others will play a significant role in hiring the next coach once the team decides on putting a bad mistake in the past. That is not often a good thing - too many cooks - but hard to argue it could be worse at this point.

I don't think there's a need for Burke or ownership to step in and influence the hiring of the next coach. If Gulutzan doesn't work out it's something Treliving should learn from for the next hiring. The one year contract thing for Gulutzan is a little puzzling though. If you don't have the confidence to at least provide your new coach with a multiple year deal is that a sign he may not be the guy? Maybe Gulutzan got the job because his sales pitch was that he would take a one year deal show me deal to prove he would be worth a longer commitment after the first season? Either way I suppose it's a plus the GM could get a new head coach to sign on for a one year deal.

[dino7c]

75% of the league are within a few M of the cap...the only ones that aren't somewhat close have internal budgets due to location

If the Flames didn't have Wideman...who isn't even playing every day and Smid on LTIR though would be in the lower third cap wise

Canucks are a "cap team" as are the Leafs, sabres, heck the Oilers have 3m and change with tons of guys on entry level deals

[Bear]

I'm still on the fence WRT Treliving (which is rare as I'm a right pessimistic git) but one move I would like to give him credit for is the Frolik signing.

I didn't love it at the time but it looks like a great bit of business now.

You could put me out there with Frolik and Backlund and the puck would keep moving North.