So if artists decide to take a stand and pull their music because they don’t want to be associated with him that is a reasonable position and if Spotify decides that these artists offer more value then Rogan does that is a business decision
Definitely, and I agree with whichever way they choose to go.
What people aren't understanding though is that he had a massive voice before his Spotify contract too. If anything him getting removed from that platform will give him an even wider reach
I don't necessarily think he should be banished from the airwaves. But, he sure is a major influence on that 20-50 yo male audience. I think his show has done more widespread damage to vaccine confidence than any other single source.
I admire Neil Young's stance on this, and will probably cancel our subscription if my wife lets me. I really don't feel like contributing money that goes to Rogan. We already pay for YouTube Premium family, so I wouldn't mind ditching it anyway, it's just all those playlists etc that need to be re-done.
Spotify has a big problem trying to sort this out.
Google how to transfer playlists. There are ways. You won’t have to start from scratch. You can them import them into Apple Music or amazon or whatever else you choose.
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This guy distributed misinformation on Covid resulting in lower vaccination rates which has resulted in increased deaths from Covid. Now should people believe Rogan as a source, obviously not, but his actions have consequences.
So if artists decide to take a stand and pull their music because they don’t want to be associated with him that is a reasonable position and if Spotify decides that these artists offer more value then Rogan does that is a business decision.
This isn’t about a random comedy special 15 years ago. This guy is actively disseminating misinformation. Why shouldn’t there be consequences for that. This isn’t the “Angry woke mob” coming for him, he is not a victim.
The clip of him and Bill Burr talking masks is a good example of how this should be handled. Rogan asks Burr if he wears a mask down the street, Burr says: don’t do this.. I’m not a medical professional, you’re not a medical professional, let’s just not.
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Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
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I'm not much of a Joe Rogan fan anymore but I used to be. I saw him live in Calgary years ago. I think he's a bit of a meathead but, to his credit, he's helped a lot of other comics get a break in the industry. He lends a helping hand to comics that might not have had a chance otherwise. Hopefully he continues to do that.
It's the responsibility of media to have people like Robert Malone on, and have a long conversation (hopefully in a setting with opposing veiwpoints) that gets to the bottom of his position, and whether it holds up under scrutiny. No major media outlet takes this route. It's all short blurbs or information without face to face discussion. We are seeing a massive failure of the format.
Joe Rogan had him on alone to state his case, and has admitted that not having the opposing view immediately after was a mistake.
The other news outlets aren't owning that they played this wrong, and that annoys me. Cancel everyone.
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"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
It's the responsibility of media to have people like Robert Malone on, and have a long conversation (hopefully in a setting with opposing veiwpoints) that gets to the bottom of his position, and whether it holds up under scrutiny. No major media outlet takes this route. It's all short blurbs or information without face to face discussion. We are seeing a massive failure of the format.
Joe Rogan had him on alone to state his case, and has admitted that not having the opposing view immediately after was a mistake.
The other news outlets aren't owning that they played this wrong, and that annoys me. Cancel everyone.
Every case doesn’t warrant being heard. If someone is going to state incorrect information that is verifiably false it does not deserve a platform. Doing so implies a debate or middle ground somewhere between the two experts.
The type of critical debunking is much better done in print where each contention can be evaluated and not lost in argument.
The worst part of this situation is that Spotify can afford to pay Rogan $100,000,000 while giving musicians a tiny fraction of a penny per play.
I also have issues with huge artists like Taylor Swift getting big paydays because her fans are obsessive and listen to her music over and over and over. If someone plays her music exclusively does she get 100% of the artist share of their subscription fee? She's likely raking in more than if the fan just bought the album (or single) on iTunes.
There's also the factor that the labels are screwing the artists as always and taking a huge chunk of the royalty Spotify pays. The Eve6 guy on Twitter was saying they get nothing from their million plays on Spotify because it all goes to the label. This isn't new but the low fee is making it worse, to the point that artists can't make a living, especially during Covid.
I love streaming services for discovering music but I buy a lot of music to support bands. You don't have to do the same but don't think your $9.99 a month is going to artists.
Last edited by DownInFlames; 02-06-2022 at 05:54 PM.
The worst part of this situation is that Spotify can afford to pay Rogan $100,000,000 while giving musicians a tiny fraction of a penny per play.
I also have issues with huge artists like Taylor Swift getting big paydays because her fans are obsessive and listen to her music over and over and over. If someone plays her music exclusively does she get 100% of the artist share of their subscription fee? She's likely raking in more than if the fan just bought the album (or single) on iTunes.
There's also the factor that the labels are screwing the artists as always and taking a huge chunk of the royalty Spotify pays. The Eve6 guy on Twitter was saying they get nothing from their million plays on Spotify because it all goes to the label. This isn't new but the low fee is making it worse, to the point that artists can't make a living, especially during Covid.
I love streaming services for discovering music but I buy a lot of music to support bands. You don't have to do the same but don't think your $9.99 a month is going to artists.
Spotify pays around 70% of revenue for music rights. Hard to argue they could increase that hugely - 100% of revenue would be a pretty hard limit, and its reasonable that they cover their own costs/profits as well.
That leaves two places to change the money going to artists:
1) the share the labels keep, which is an individual negotiation. Given options like tunecore where the artist can keep 100% I'd expect this to improve over time.
2) the amount people pay. If spotify doubled their revenue the artist share would automatically double. But doubling their prices wouldn't do it - some people would quit after an increase, and presumably they're already optimizing ad rates on the ad supported side.
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Spotify pays around 70% of revenue for music rights. Hard to argue they could increase that hugely - 100% of revenue would be a pretty hard limit, and its reasonable that they cover their own costs/profits as well.
That leaves two places to change the money going to artists:
1) the share the labels keep, which is an individual negotiation. Given options like tunecore where the artist can keep 100% I'd expect this to improve over time.
2) the amount people pay. If spotify doubled their revenue the artist share would automatically double. But doubling their prices wouldn't do it - some people would quit after an increase, and presumably they're already optimizing ad rates on the ad supported side.
From what I've read Spotify is still living off investor money to stay alive so rates aren't going to go up, even though they're pretty much the lowest among streamers, unless they increase prices. Apple would eat them alive if they tried that.
Tidal was supposed to be artist-owned but even they hardly pay anything, although they do pay more than Spotify.
Labels don't so much negotiate as dictate royalties. I don't see that changing.
So I think streaming will not survive unless fans accept that the artists they love aren't getting a fair deal and supplement streaming with album and merch sales, along with concert tickets. Good luck asking people to pay more in this economy.
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This guy distributed misinformation on Covid resulting in lower vaccination rates which has resulted in increased deaths from Covid. Now should people believe Rogan as a source, obviously not, but his actions have consequences.
So if artists decide to take a stand and pull their music because they don’t want to be associated with him that is a reasonable position and if Spotify decides that these artists offer more value then Rogan does that is a business decision.
This isn’t about a random comedy special 15 years ago. This guy is actively disseminating misinformation. Why shouldn’t there be consequences for that. This isn’t the “Angry woke mob” coming for him, he is not a victim.
Rogan is a host. Are media hosts responsible for everything their guests say? If CNN interviews a general who says a country is harbouring terrorists, and public opinion is moved marginally towards a war against that country, is CNN responsible for those consequences?
And even if there may be a case for removing that episode of Rogan’s podcast, it’s clear that ideological enemies of Rogan smell blood and want the whole show removed from Spotify. Which is getting into the realm of pressuring Spotify (and by extension iTunes, etc) into hosting only Blue Tribe content. The ideal of broadly popular, non-partisan platforms is not shared by everybody. Some would very much like a world where all media, news, and entertainment platforms took a clear stand and declared allegiance to their side of the culture wars. Which I think would be a bad thing.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 02-06-2022 at 07:08 PM.
So the left has been salivating to get this guy cancelled for some time now because of his anti-vax sentiment and misinformation on his podcast. The right, for their credit, has glorified this guy in a stupid way.
The latest in the last couple days has been video of Rogan using the n-word a bunch of times, but the real problem is him comparing black people to Apes from the Planet of the Apes, and saying that black people have different brains and are physically Superior to white people.
I think he's done for with Spotify. Thoughts?
Who does he think he is..Howard Cosell
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From what I've read Spotify is still living off investor money to stay alive so rates aren't going to go up, even though they're pretty much the lowest among streamers, unless they increase prices. Apple would eat them alive if they tried that.
Tidal was supposed to be artist-owned but even they hardly pay anything, although they do pay more than Spotify.
Labels don't so much negotiate as dictate royalties. I don't see that changing.
So I think streaming will not survive unless fans accept that the artists they love aren't getting a fair deal and supplement streaming with album and merch sales, along with concert tickets. Good luck asking people to pay more in this economy.
The people benefiting the most from Spotify is consumers. The idea that a household can have unlimited access to the vast majority of all music ever recorded for $15 a month is astonishing. Like something out of utopian science fiction. Of course musicians are getting less in royalties - consumers are spending far less on recorded music than they did 30 years ago. It’s beyond entitled to expect that artists should be paid more without consumers spending more.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 02-07-2022 at 01:01 PM.
Are we rationalizing cancelling Joe Rogan for saying the N word years ago because he is an anti vaxxer?
I’ve never listened to his podcasts, and being anti vax is a dumb position, but so is feeling it’s ok to cancel someone because they have other views you don’t like.
Are we rationalizing cancelling Joe Rogan for saying the N word years ago because he is an anti vaxxer?
I’ve never listened to his podcasts, and being anti vax is a dumb position, but so is feeling it’s ok to cancel someone because they have other views you don’t like.
Especially when he's saying it on his own platform.
Rogan is a host. Are media hosts responsible for everything their guests say? If CNN interviews a general who says a country is harbouring terrorists, and public opinion is moved marginally towards a war against that country, is CNN responsible for those consequences?
Rogan is a host? You're acting like he's Steve Harvey and his podcast is Family Feud
Joe Rogan owns and controls every aspect of his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience. Joe is actively seeking out quack doctors like Malone and McCollough and giving them a platform to spew misinformation without question.
Here is host Joe Rogan before he did an abrupt 180 on the topic and started going down the anti vax rabbit hole. Joe has openly talked about having screenshots on his phone in a folder called "cooties" that he uses to dismiss real information.
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Are we rationalizing cancelling Joe Rogan for saying the N word years ago because he is an anti vaxxer?
I’ve never listened to his podcasts, and being anti vax is a dumb position, but so is feeling it’s ok to cancel someone because they have other views you don’t like.
Spotify putting or removing Joe Rogan from their platform is called capitalism. They'll only remove him if it affects their bottom line.
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Especially when he's saying it on his own platform.
Joe's platform has always been hosted on someone else's platform, either Youtube or Spotify.
Joe's platform has always been hosted on someone else's platform, either Youtube or Spotify.
That's where people can find it but they aren't hosting it. If spotify cancels their exclusivity deal all it means is that his podcast go back to being even easier to find rather than just being in one place
