The episode had some nice flashbacks to Coulson and May on an early mission where he was a level 4 and she was a level 3. It hinted that their flirting has been going on for a while. With the end flashback hoping that May's latest relationship doesn't work so they can go for a drink
We also find out that Ivanov the head of the watchdogs wants revenge on Coulson because that mission ended up with the other members of his SVR team being executed for failing to stop Coulson and May from recovering an object at a Soviet Era mining base.
BTW when Ivanov told Coulson about his motivations, Coulson gave the greatest "I don't give a shyte speech" in television history. He then left Daisy to nearly beat the guy to death.
We also found out that Aida and Radcliffe are pretty much pure evil and were running a plan within a plan and they were using the watchdogs and their leader. At one point Ivanov and Aida had an exchange where he basically called her filth but then pointed out that even filth had its usages.
Anyways this whole episode revolved around tracking down May and Mace. We saw Mace getting tortured and nearly beaten to death before Mac came in and beat up his tormentors.
There was also a really good exchange between Mac and Fitz as the technology that Fitz had developed was being used by Radcliffe, in terms of the Frame work and Aida herself. Mace basically called Fitz immoral because he doesn't consider that his inventions can be used to do harm.
In the end, the team managed to save Mace, but not May and Aida escaped. We had a happy reunion until Simmons and Fitz realized that the LMD alarm had gone off on their return and Coulson had erased it. They then realized that Coulson, Mac, Daisy and Mace had all been replaced when the team had been separated.
In the ultimate creepy moment we see Aida leaning over Ivanov's broken body and telling him that he couldn't die yet because even filth till has a purpose. We also closed the episode with LMD Coulson waking up LMD May.
Overall a great episode. The opening with the fight between Daisy and Coulson in the frame work to test it out was hilarious. The Coulson I don't give a shyte speech about who you are and what your doing was great that ends with the line "Cool origin story bro, but I don't care". The argument between Mack and Fitz was a little heart breaking.
Really strong and great dialogue.
Its pretty clear that Radcliffe is completely corrupted by the book, and that his motives are no longer pure at all. He also seems to be spending a lot of time in the Frame work which is alot like Seti in that it uses every computer and phone in the world for processing power.
Its pretty clear that the watchdogs and Ivanov were just a distraction for Radcliffe and Aida, I would expect that the rest of this season is about why they're doing this. Its not to save the world from death or disease
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Marvel has announced that former Game of Thrones actor Iwan Rheon is set to star in the upcoming series Marvel’s Inhumans. Rheon will play the role of Maximus, brother of the Inhuman King, Black Bolt, who is capable of mind control.
It turns out that it wasn't Coulson, Mack, Mace and Daisy who were the LMD's while Gemma and Fitz were normal. Daisy was not an LMD but Fitz was and he attacked Gemma and tried to scan her memory so they could replace her.
The LMD's had two parts to their plan, to replace everyone in shield and to execute all of the inhumans.
But Gemma and Daisy figured it out after Daisy stumbled into a room full of herself in her underwear. Her and Gemma decided that they needed to escape the base and hack into the frame work to rescue all of the others.
We saw a great fight between Daisy and Mace and the Mace bot was killed, then we saw a spectacularly lethal daisy moment where she disintegrated Mack and presumably killed the Coulson bot, but there were more then one.
Anyways, Daisy and Simmons escaped the base with the few surviving Shield agents and hacked into the Framework.
Meanwhile the Maybot realizing that she was not real and the Coulson bot was not the man that she loved blew the crap out of the shield base.
Meanwhile Aida continued down a path of complete madness. When she and Radcliffe designed the Framework 2.0, they made it so it would take away a persons one regret. But that created a paradox in her programming wich had two directives. One to protect the framework and one to protect Radcliffe. She realized that one of the biggest human emotions is regret and logically that meant that Radcliffe could be a massive threat to the Framework if he ever regretted building it. So she murdered Radcliffe and put him in the Framework.
Meanwhile Daisy and Gemma hacked into the Frame work and we saw Daisy waking up in a bath. She went to wake up her boyfriend in bed who she expected to be Linkin but it looks like its Grant Ward.
We saw Coulson as a teacher and he was writing on the board about why we should fear the inhumans.
We saw Fitz get out of a limo and reach in to grab a hand, then we saw Simmons Grave.
We saw Mack in front of a house putting away a childs bike.
Then we saw May in what looks like Hydra's main headquarters.
So clearly everyones one regret that was removed lead to Ward not dying and Hydra taking over the world and Coulson becoming something that he hates in the real world.
Then we flashed back to Reality where Ivanov woke up from his surgery fully recovered. And it turns out that he's a metal body and we saw his head in a device and he was controlling his body remotely. Aida then gave him the Darkhold to read and stated that he would learn to feel emotions and so would she.
Great episode. Elizabeth Hemstridge and Chloe Bennett absolutely knocked their roles out of the park.
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I post in the Shield subreddit sometimes, and this was my prediction after last week's episode:
Quote:
Are we even certain that the LMD count was correct? I'm not 100% sure that Coulson, Mack, Daisy and Mace are the LMDs. Simmons could very well be the LMD. It was dark in the basement. She could have been swapped easily by Aida without Davis noticing. If that's the case, then a potential Robo-Simmons could have altered the LMD detection output. In which case we may very well have a different number than four LMDs.
If I were to take a stab, I would say Simmons, Mack, and Mace are LMDs. I feel like Daisy would be hard to replace given that they would have to replicate her powers. Coulson and Mack were separated for a while, and Coulson and Daisy were fighting the Russian. Fitz could be an LMD seeing as he was by himself, and could have hacked Simmons' account, but my money is still on Simmons.
That or I'm totally wrong and it's the four we saw who are LMDs lol.
I was on the right path, but
Spoiler!
Was wrong about Coulson, guessed that Simmons was the bot and not Fitz, but got Daisy right.
Also Daisy vs. the LMDs was just a sick fight. Dat hadouken!
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Was that last shot of May in Hydra head quarters the shield headquarters from the Winter Soldier?
Yes it was. and I get a sense that the text that Daisy got about waking up her boyfriend means that she and Grant are Hydra as well and maybe May is the head of Hydra.
So suddenly does this mean that the events of Winter solder didn't happen or Captain America lost?
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Yes it was. and I get a sense that the text that Daisy got about waking up her boyfriend means that she and Grant are Hydra as well and maybe May is the head of Hydra.
So suddenly does this mean that the events of Winter solder didn't happen or Captain America lost?
I think it goes back to Aida saying that she took one regret away from all of them but had to go back further to do it. Colson bot or flashback talks about his regret stemmed from joining shield. So the framework universe is a what if Colson never joined shield classic comic book reimagining.
I think that Daisy/Lincoln are together because without Coldon Daisy eventually finds the inhuman shangrila and meets Lincoln so the main conflict in the universe is Hydra vs Inhuman.
Its funny because I was driving home from football practice tonight and I thought about this and their regrets
1) Coulson regretted joining Shield. So he doesn't join and stays a civilian. So what could the effects be. Well we see that Hydra took over, but it could have happened much earlier then the events of season one. We wouldn't have had Coulson involved in the events of Iron Man, or Thor, and chances are that Hydra wouldn't have recruited the avengers, they would have tried to imprison or exterminate them. As well, Hydra probably won the world so they would have exterminated the inhumans before Daisy even learned that she was one. She might not have been exposed to the Crystals. And Daisy would have stayed as Skye. Meanwhile Coulson would have been indoctrinated as the rest of the world would have been against the Inhumans, this the message on the board.
2) Skye, in the first season she was in love with Ward, but the difference could have been that Skye was recruited by Hydra and not Shield and would have fallen in love with Ward because the betrayal of Shield by Hydra would have never happened. So his actions would have been normal. So she would have never become an inhuman.
3) May regretted killing that girl, She would have never met Coulson though who softened her edges. So she would have dedicated herself completely to Hydra never married the doctor and because the inhuman war would have been less personal she would have ruthlessly exterminated any inhuman since they were the clear enemy of Hydra.
4) Fitz I think his regret is over the creation of the frame work and the creation of Aida. So the Frame work would have removed any chance of that regret from happening so Fitz looks like he became a rich probably tech guy, probably never met Simmons because he never joined Hydra and therefore never had the chance to invent something that became so destructive.
5) Simmons I believe that she's dead in the Frame work, I'm not sure what her regret would be since she never met Fitz.
6) Mack's regret also seems to involve his life in Shield, he wanted a normal life with his brother and that's what he probably got. I wouldn't be surprised to see a non inhuman Yo-Yo as his wife.
But this whole thing centers around Coulson's regret in joining shield, he's the center point in that his actions effect all the others, so if he never joined shield, May would be far more ruthless, Hydra wouldn't have had to take over Shield as Hydra probably betrayed or took over while Coulson was probably a lot younger. The actions of Civil War wouldn't have happened because I believe Captain America would still be on ice as Hydra would have probably either kept him frozen or killed him. Hydra certainly wouldn't have helped Captain America or the rest of the Avengers in the same way because they would have been a huge threat to Hydra. Without Coulson and a earlier Hydra. Skye wouldn't be conflicted in falling in love with Ward. May would have only had her career. Fitz and Simmons would probably never have met.
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I think Skye's regret is that she didn't have her parents and in the end had to side with shield and betray them. So in her world her parents are their and she undergoes conversion in their hidden land.
Fitz other potential regret is not telling Simmons how he felt earlier. So does by doing that he put them in a position where Simmons dies because of it. Also what happens to real Simmons if he she is dead in the frame work. We know if you die you die but what if you enter when you are dead.
I think Skye's regret is that she didn't have her parents and in the end had to side with shield and betray them. So in her world her parents are their and she undergoes conversion in their hidden land.
Yeah, that's valid as well. That would point to it being Lincoln being in the bed. But I still think from a script writing perspective the whole Ward being the one would be looked at as a bigger "Holy shyte moment"
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
Fitz other potential regret is not telling Simmons how he felt earlier. So does by doing that he put them in a position where Simmons dies because of it. Also what happens to real Simmons if he she is dead in the frame work. We know if you die you die but what if you enter when you are dead.
I would have agreed on the Fitz regret into the last two episodes when Mack confronted hm about being no better then a Nazi basically because he created things like Framework and Aida without thinking or caring about the harm that he's doing.
So I tend to think that his big regret was not even being a part of shield and becoming some internet tech billionare.
I'm not sure about the Simmons Question, but beaming into a world where your dead can't be good, however there are lots of Robot avatars in the Frame work as they talked about so she might end up there. On the other hand this show hasn't been afraid to kill off cast members, so its not out of the realm that she beamed into a grave, and this becomes a even bigger regret for Fitz in that his invention killed his girlfriend.
Whedon basically comfirmed that it is Ward in the bed, and the reason why they had the picture instead of Dalton rolling over is that Dalton wasn't available to film that episode but it is ward and Skye.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I'm guessing that Simmons plays the role similar to Fury in this world. Maybe leading a secret group of rebels to wage war against Hydra.
Oh snap. That fits perfectly. I was confused because they had said they located the avatars and that they die IRL if they die in the Framework. This theory makes total sense! Genius.
On Simmons and Skye's regrets.. would they even apply? If Aida took out regrets for the people they had, the ones they took scans from, would they even have the ability to see what the girl's regrets were? They are supposed to just be avatars so I would think the whole regret notion only applied to those hooked in by Aida directly.
Edit - I hope they give Simmons an eye patch.
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Oh snap. That fits perfectly. I was confused because they had said they located the avatars and that they die IRL if they die in the Framework. This theory makes total sense! Genius.
On Simmons and Skye's regrets.. would they even apply? If Aida took out regrets for the people they had, the ones they took scans from, would they even have the ability to see what the girl's regrets were? They are supposed to just be avatars so I would think the whole regret notion only applied to those hooked in by Aida directly.
Edit - I hope they give Simmons an eye patch.
Thats a good point too. But the events of fixing those regrets could have just made Skye/daisy getting together with Ward just happen.
Same with Simmons leading a rebel group, wbtw awesome idea.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Yeah I'm a simple man, if he wrote on the board, why we shouldn't fear inhumans then I would be yeah. But I have this sense that Coulson not being exposed to anything but the Hydra News Network would probably be pretty black and white.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
just a reminder that Agents of Shield starts tonight and looks like it will take place in the virtual world. They also called it Agents of Hydra in a preview commercial.
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Jemma is/was dead and though they showed a nice grave in England at the end of the last episode she was actually buried in a mass grave at the now shut down shield headquarters.
We saw that the frame work is designed to take away the things that gave people pain.
May always felt pain about killing the inhuman girl in Bahrain, so in this world she didn't kill her and the girl was bought to the States and ended up killing 30 kids in Boston. Because of this, Hydra took over and destroyed Shield and it was a popular decision as the State became more important then the individuals. For May it meant that she never lost her ruthlessness and she became the number three in Hydra
Daisy, never transformed so she work up in this world as Sky an agent in Hydra. While she expected to see Lincoln in this world, she is actually in a relationship with Grant Ward.
Coulson never joined Shield which was the source of his pain, instead he became a teacher and fully bought into the Hydra message to the point that when Hydra came to his class room to take away a suspected inhuman kid, Coulson was ok with it.
Poor Fitz biggest pain was actually his relationship with Gemma, and probably their argument over his inability to see the results of his actions. So with no Gemma in his life, he became the second highest guy in Hydra, a ruthless doctor that's ok with torture and murder. He's also a source of great power and fear.
So anyways, Gemma runs to Coulson and finds out that Coulson and none of the Shield members have memories of their real lives, not only that, but the ability to do things without consequences is extremely seductive.
Daisy actually interrogates the brother of the senator in the real world who's a inhuman, and she reveals to Grant that there is a mole in Hydra helping the inhumans. The Doctor (Fitz) takes over and torture tests poor Vijay)
Anyways Sky meets Simmons at a park bench that has a beacon that will wake them up in the real world, but Hydra shows up and they get into a confrontation with Ward who had followed them, but in a massive twist, Ward kills a Hydra agent and helps them escape, in this world, that random bit of programming that is Ward is a good guy.
Ward helps Sky and Gemma to a safe house and they decide to wake up get Yo-Yo and come back with a plan, but the beacon doesn't work, someone has rewritten the exit.
We go to Hydra headquarters as Firtz is meeting with the director who is Aida. I'm not sure if its the real Aida or not, but she assures Fitz that she's secured the exit and Fitz wants to protect what they've built and she needs his creativity and then they make out. To me I believe that Fitz actually knows he's in the frame work and because of the lack of Gemma in his life, simply doesn't care.
The last scene has Sky in Coulson's car begging him to remember her and at first he denies it, then when she emotionally tells him that she has always gone to him for help he calls her daisy.
Random thouhts
There's a flaw in the framework. Coulson had a file folder that had relics of his former life, articles in the paper, the Tahiti post card and page after page of him writing "Its a wonderful place"
The scene of Gemma crawling out of the mass grave was creepy and well done.
In the classroom Coulson was asked if Hydra were Nazi's and he said that Hydra had been around for 100's of years so they couldn't be Nazi's.
There were no funny lines in this at all unlike most agent of shield episodes, I thought that was really well done as this is an entirely dark and evil world.
May is a complete monster, it seems like her desire to not kill the kill and then seeing it blow up in her face has stripped her of all of her humanity.
There was a really nice touch with all of the almost ww2 era propaganda posters on every wall.
All in all a terrific episode to return the series too TV, it was dark and grim and we almost felt there was no hope until the very last line in the episodes. We know there's a resistance but we don't know who's in it, however we didn't see Mack in this episodes so either he's completely stepped away from it all or he's in the resistance, but they didn't even try to find him.
We also didn't see the mad scientist guy who invented the frame work, I have this theory that he was thrown in and his biggest regret was Aida so he's going to be in the resistance.
Loved it.
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