Intellectual Honesty...

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Oli Jokinen 31st in goals in the shootout among active skaters (46%)...... Damn could of had him in there instead of Jones.

That percentage can't be correct, but he's been pretty good at shootouts. Wasn't the one year when the Flames did well in shootouts that same that Jokinen perfected his trademark backhand move? Either way, he was pretty efficient that season.

[COGENT]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

ok...not much oddness to it. No oddness at all actually.

The season started in January

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by BEANZ

Did you watch the last two games? The Flames looked terrible in both and had little to no push. The team lacks top end talent and does not compete hard enough to make up for it.

Against Vancouver they didn't try but I thought they tried against Minnesota, they likely played their most physical game of the year against the Wild.

The floaters for that game were Iggy, and Tanguay.

[The Voice of Reason]

Originally Posted by neo45

Aren't power rankings done differently?

I suppose you could make the argument that a week 1 or pre-season power ranking and a predictions of where a team will finish at the end of the year could be different. I don't really have the time to search out if that would be true or not. I certainly wouldn't have hurt feelings if someone showed that to be the case.

I just was curious to know how two Canadian media companies who have a lot of staff dedicated to the NHL ranked the Flames at the start of each of those seasons.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

That percentage can't be correct, but he's been pretty good at shootouts. Wasn't the one year when the Flames did well in shootouts that same that Jokinen perfected his trademark backhand move? Either way, he was pretty efficient that season.

Yea I read his road shootout percentage not his overall by accident which is 36%. He is still 31st overall though.

Still Oli, Hudler and Tanguay would be a great shootout lineup.

[Itse]

I think everybody except those who choose to be optimistic out of principle know that we don't have a good team.

As to intellectual honesty, making definitive statements about a coach 8 games into his first season is the opposite of that.

The only thing clear about Hartley at this point is that has a different style than any of the other post-Darryl coaches. (And obviously he's nothing like Darryl either.)

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you're 4 points out of the playoffs after game 10 (in an 82 game schedule), you have a 7% chance of making the playoffs.

2011/12 Bruins
2011/12 Blues
2010/11 Sabres
2010/11 Coyotes
2010/11 Ducks

So 5 teams out of the 32 to make the playoffs the last 2 years. Not great odds but better than 7%, 16% to be exact.

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Of course you do not know for sure, but the following playoff teams from last year had a top 5 pick in the last 10 years:

1) Boston
2) Florida
3) Pittsburgh
4) Philadelphia
5) New Jersey
6) Washington
7) St. Louis
8) Phoenix
9) Chicago
10) Los Angeles

Honorable mention to the Vancouver Canucks who got their two best players with top five picks outside of that arbitrary ten year period.

It seems the vast vast majority of teams go through a period where they are basement dwellers before they can become elite again. Pretty hard to rebuild as a mediocre team drafting 13th every year.

Kind of misleading for many of those teams. Several of them had no or nominal impact players who were top five picks in the last ten years (NJ, Philadelphia) and Boston got their impact top five pick from Toronto. Other teams in there got their core players through non top five picks or through trades.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Oli Jokinen 31st in goals in the shootout among active skaters (46%)...... Damn could of had him in there instead of Jones.

Jones was 50% before last night

[Britflamesfan]

I cannot understand a GM with the stated intent (guarantee!) of making the playoffs going into the season with no 1st line center and one could argue at the start of the season no 2nd line center. Really he should be fired for this alone! This team is now at least 2 years behind where it should be if Feaster had applied Intellectual Honesty when he first stated it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Psytic

We still don't know if the results of the draft will turn out better sadly either. Bart has already had a few injuries in his young career, Johnny Hockey is still a crap shoot to make the NHL with his size and Jankowski was an off the board pick who will take yrs to develop and his stats so far are looking just okay at this point.

Good points we don't know which is why trading all our assets for picks like HF/TSN etc thinks we should do is no gurarante of success.

The only think holding Sven back is likely injuries
The only thing holding Gaudreau back is size
Janko is a long term project with all the tools to be a star but this won't happen for 3-5 years.

Brossiot, Wortherspoon, Granlund from the 2011 class all have taken a nice step forward.

Brodie and Backlund from the previous regime are starting to really look like players (especially Brodie who was a 4t rounder).

I would like the Flames to avoid moving Iggy for a pick at this stage since he will likely be moving to a team that will draft 20-30th. I am targeting teams that have a top prospect that are willing to move. Laughton does not qualify. I still really want Krieder from the Rangers, he is abig body with a ton of speed and former teammate of Johnny Hockey. I think the Rangers would consider moving him for Iggy if they knew they could get 1-2 more years from Jarome after the trade.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think everybody except those who choose to be optimistic out of principle know that we don't have a good team.

As to intellectual honesty, making definitive statements about a coach 8 games into his first season is the opposite of that.

The only thing clear about Hartley at this point is that has a different style than any of the other post-Darryl coaches. (And obviously he's nothing like Darryl either.)

So far, same style as Keenan.

Remember when the flames had a practice with balloons and folding chairs?

Stretch the opposition defense and making them pay for forechecking with quick-strike off-the-rush offense.

Fire drill in your own end.

Get the puck to Iginla on the half wall for one-timers on the PP.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

I cannot understand a GM with the stated intent (guarantee!) of making the playoffs going into the season with no 1st line center and one could argue at the start of the season no 2nd line center. Really he should be fired for this alone! This team is now at least 2 years behind where it should be if Feaster had applied Intellectual Honesty when he first stated it.

The players Feaster brought in have been the teams best players...hard to blame him when ownership won't let him trade the big two

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The players Feaster brought in have been the teams best players...hard to blame him when ownership won't let him trade the big two

No doubt but he still left critical positions unfilled.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Britflamesfan

No doubt but he still left critical positions unfilled.

where on earth are you going to get a #1 center from? They don't grow on trees

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by dino7c

where on earth are you going to get a #1 center from? They don't grow on trees

Number one center? They don't have ANY centers.

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

where on earth are you going to get a #1 center from? They don't grow on trees

We had one not a great one but he was a No 1 center and he could have been re-signed, rather than be allowed to walk for nothing.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by dino7c

jones was 50% before last night

1/2

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

where on earth are you going to get a #1 center from? They don't grow on trees

Feaster took his best shot at Richards and he gets roasted by many for that move. It was a calculated risk as there was a close relationship between Feaster and Richards, Edwards bank account was wide open, they had an impressive pitch, the team came off a nice 2nd half run falling just short of the playoffs. At the end of the day it worked out for both parties. Richards went where he wanted to go and the Flames dodged a bullet of having a 10 year $70M contract on the books for a player who was 31 at the time.

That was a risk probably worth taking from Feaster's perspective and it was an exciting day on CP but it certainly was a long shot but those #1 C don't come along often.

[Karl Racki]

Originally Posted by dino7c

where on earth are you going to get a #1 center from? They don't grow on trees

Correct. So what teams often have to do is practice some intellectual honesty at the right time and trade REALLY good but aging assets (while they are still REALLY good) and obtain either very high draft picks or recently drafted highly skilled, future stars in return. Not sure we have that option anymore for what its worth.