I realize many here seem to believe EV's are the be all end all but some auto manufacturers are hedging their bets with Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars as it offers advantages over EV in faster charging and longer distances.
I realize many here seem to believe EV's are the be all end all but some auto manufacturers are hedging their bets with Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars as it offers advantages over EV in faster charging and longer distances.
It also is very energy intensive to make the hydrogen fuel, which makes it unlikely to be useful in large numbers.
The fuel cell cars still have less range than current EVs, the fuel cells are incredibly inefficient and don't last long, and it's very expensive
Very interesting - can you teach me more about that? I am not sure I follow you all the way on your logic.
The claims of efficiency gains of EVs are dubious for me given that most electricity generation options are about 45% efficient before transmission and storage losses. Is it really a net gain? And if it is, is it meaningful enough to justify a complete re-tool of the supply chain?
We already do distribute and store massive amounts of gasoline where we live. I don't think it would be unreasonable to imagine a TaaS style autonomous ICE or hybrid to be programmed to pull up to a station that has a full service attendant to take care of that. Long haul rigs that are proposed to be automated are largely automated for the highway driving portion of the trip and still rely on a rested human driver to take care of the city and refuelling tasks.
Your point about fuel distribution being more efficient is what I was getting at about EV fleets being viable in cities only. I am unconvinced that generating and distributing electricity in that way would be meaningfully better so as to justify the mining, processing, upgrading, etc of the electric grid to a high voltage network that would enable a massive conversion to EVs. I don't think our command of material science is quite there to allow moores law type advancements to be realized in battery technologies. Now... should you tell me that we could do this all with batteries that have 1000x the storage capacity, 100x the cycle lifetime, and could be done with low voltage systems... man, then you're talking.
I mean, I'd love to see it happen. I think we could reclaim a lot of the footrpint in our cities from things like parking lots and repurpose them in a multitude of ways. But I think that's where the impact will reach it's extent. In centres of high population density. Lots of European, North American and SE Asian cities fit that vision. What I don't fully grasp is to what extent the fleet would be effectively converted and what impact that would have on global demand for hydrocarbon.
I'll be honest that I don't know THAT much about the potential, you seem to know more than I do. Would love to hear more about your position on this, I am open to being convinced.
Here is a quick link that highlights some of the technical aspects of wireless charging standardization.
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Developing standards does not happen overnight. The SAE wireless charging project has been ongoing since 2010. It was only after years of input from manufacturers and automotive suppliers that an agreement on what the technical standard should be was reached.
Ultimately, wireless charging will allow EV drivers to simply park their cars over a designated spot and walk away. Their cars will charge automatically while they are gone without needing to be connected to a charging cable. The autonomous cars of the near future will be able to park themselves in public lots, drive themselves to an available wireless charging location, then return to an open charging space when recharging is complete.
WiTricity of Watertown, Massachusetts is one company that is leading the research and development of wireless charging equipment. Initially, the J2954 standard will apply only to systems with 3.7 kW, or 7.7 kW of power, corresponding to today’s Level 1 and Level 2 charging equipment. But WiTricity says it is working on systems that offer 11 kW on up to 22 kW of power. Even higher power levels will be possible in the future. It claims its systems have an efficiency of between 91 and 94% using the circular coil design that is now part of the SAE protocol.
“Our team has pioneered the technology for wireless charging systems that not only deliver the power levels and high efficiency needed for today’s vehicles, but also are very interoperable. Our automaker customers want to know that their cars will work with charging stations around the world, and a global standard makes that possible,” said Alex Gruzen, CEO of WiTricity. “With this progress toward standardization, carmakers and charging system providers can now accelerate their vehicle production programs with confidence.”
The convenience of wireless charging may prove to be a major factor that encourages mainstream drivers to buy electric cars. Car companies like Toyota, Audi, Nissan, and General Motors are busy bringing wireless charging capability to their production electric cars.
The Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) is currently demonstrating that high levels of efficiency can be achieved with wireless EV chargers. The lab is currently running a 20kW charger at 90 percent efficiency. That's enough juice to provide about 60 miles of charge in an hour or two.
This is mostly a proof of concept, not quite ready for the market just yet. That said, ORNL's planning on developing a 50kW wireless charger next, which would provide charging speeds on par with some of the fastest plug-in offerings. When that point is reached, and costs are low enough to jive with buyers, that's when we can expect to see a real push to introduce wireless charging on a wide scale.
ORNL also sees wireless charging as an important step in introducing full-on autonomous vehicles. If the cars can drive around and charge without human intervention, then you'd start seeing the materialization of this driving-free utopia that some are keen to introduce as soon as possible.
Of course, it takes special equipment to charge an EV wirelessly. Right now, there are no manufacturer solutions for wireless charging, although there are aftermarket retrofit kits available.
It also is very energy intensive to make the hydrogen fuel, which makes it unlikely to be useful in large numbers.
The fuel cell cars still have less range than current EVs, the fuel cells are incredibly inefficient and don't last long, and it's very expensive
Apparently hydrogen is a byproduct of some fusion reactors. No idea if it is a lot, but it might be a good source. Of course, that is always 10 years away from today.
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I realize many here seem to believe EV's are the be all end all but some auto manufacturers are hedging their bets with Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars as it offers advantages over EV in faster charging and longer distances.
For me it doesn't matter if the dominant design for cars is hydrogen, electric or compressed air. If it's not gasoline it's going be tough on traditional oil companies.
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Very cool...I'd like to know more about that. However, whether it comes from coal, hydro, wind, gas, nuclear, geothermal, or fission the system will convert it all into electricity. So I'm not sure why fission has anything to do with EV's.
Unless you are going to use the fission power to generate hydrogen...or to pull CO2 out of the air and transform it back to a liquid fuel.
My point was that solar would die a painful death if fission becomes a reality.
Either way I think electric cars will be prevalent for a lot of years to come.
That's a funny page. Pay us $1330 now! No indication of how much per sq/ft or installation costs, or dates, or how much power you can expect, just pay us! What a time to be alive. Do people actually do this? Give a company a bunch of money with little to no idea of any details, just for the privilege of being a beta tester?
That's a funny page. Pay us $1330 now! No indication of how much per sq/ft or installation costs, or dates, or how much power you can expect, just pay us! What a time to be alive. Do people actually do this? Give a company a bunch of money with little to no idea of any details, just for the privilege of being a beta tester?
That's a funny page. Pay us $1330 now! No indication of how much per sq/ft or installation costs, or dates, or how much power you can expect, just pay us! What a time to be alive. Do people actually do this? Give a company a bunch of money with little to no idea of any details, just for the privilege of being a beta tester?
People put down deposits for all sorts of products.
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This payment is fully refundable until you enter into a purchase and installation agreement. By placing this order you agree to the Order Agreement and the Customer Privacy Policy.
People put down deposits for all sorts of products.
Yes, but you usually have some idea of what you are paying for. This is a deposit for something that may cost $10k, or $100k, it may generate 100W or 1000W, you have no idea.
Yes, but you usually have some idea of what you are paying for. This is a deposit for something that may cost $10k, or $100k, it may generate 100W or 1000W, you have no idea.
I would imagine people putting down a deposit will do a cursory google search about the product before laying out their money.
Well as near as I can tell there are no details. A quick Google search doesn't bring up anything at all, and shouldn't that be on the product page? At least a kick-starter tells you how much the item costs.
That's a funny page. Pay us $1330 now! No indication of how much per sq/ft or installation costs, or dates, or how much power you can expect, just pay us! What a time to be alive. Do people actually do this? Give a company a bunch of money with little to no idea of any details, just for the privilege of being a beta tester?
It's US$42/square foot for tiles that can produce electricity and US$11/square foot for non-electricity producing tiles. Which is pretty expensive, even relative to high-end roofing material.
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Its a kickstarter world now...people are becoming microinvestors in the innovation process. It's good stuff...albeit risky.
It's not a micro-investment becuase there is no return on the investment. It's a purchase of something that doesn't exist yet. It's financing with no gain. It makes little sense, but hey, that's the world today.
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That's a funny page. Pay us $1330 now! No indication of how much per sq/ft or installation costs, or dates, or how much power you can expect, just pay us! What a time to be alive. Do people actually do this? Give a company a bunch of money with little to no idea of any details, just for the privilege of being a beta tester?
From the Tesla calculator that you have to pay $1330 to use. :-)
It's roughly $21.85/sq ft according to consumer reports. It's for sure more than a regular tile roof. But doesn't take into account any incentives. So in California, where incentives are high, it could be worthwhile.
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