Justin Trudeau says marijuana should be legalized

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to take a step back and why pot was legalized in the first place. One of the reasons was that criminalizing pot was meant to suppress use. Four decades of widespread use proved that was a failed strategy - virtually everyone in Canada in 2012 who wanted to smoke pot could smoke pot.

Of course people who are occasional users who have to buy from a guy who knows a guy found it inconvenient. And those are the people who will benefit most from legalization. But long-term heavy users had regular and trusted suppliers. They get all the pot they need at a good price and with no stress today. They aren't buying from a guy parked outside the French Maid. They're buying from their friends. People on their hockey teams. Their neighbours. And they're often buying in large volume, so it's cheap.

Do you really think all of those friends are going to keep doing all that running around or are they going to tell their friends to just go pick up their stuff at a dispensary?

And keep in mind that the dispensaries that are selling pot today in the mail are operating illegally, and the government plans to shut them down. When legal retail comes on-stream it will be more expensive than these mail dispensaries.

Each province is going to have different rules regarding mail orders. Why do you expect retail weed at your local dispensary will be more expensive than mail order when there won’t be shipping costs?

[indes]

My anecdote is that I have quite a few friends who smoke pot daily. I had 1 friend who was still getting pot from a dealer, just a few weeks ago his dealer told him he was done and it wasn't worth it anymore. Now he goes to the dispensary like everyone else. I hear it takes about 10 minutes to get a prescription in the store with a doctor over skype.

Here, around Nelson BC where it wasn't difficult to find pot at all, there's no one to buy it off of. There is 0% chance these laws won't stop black market sale of pot in Canada. I've heard through the grapevine that most suppliers are in exit strategy mode already, again, in the west kootenays. If those guys stop then there will be no black market pot to sell, and they're stopping. It might not stop completely right away but I wouldn't imagine it takes more than 3 years.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by indes

My anecdote is that I have quite a few friends who smoke pot daily. I had 1 friend who was still getting pot from a dealer, just a few weeks ago his dealer told him he was done and it wasn't worth it anymore. Now he goes to the dispensary like everyone else. I hear it takes about 10 minutes to get a prescription in the store with a doctor over skype.

Here, around Nelson BC where it wasn't difficult to find pot at all, there's no one to buy it off of. There is 0% chance these laws won't stop black market sale of pot in Canada. I've heard through the grapevine that most suppliers are in exit strategy mode already, again, in the west kootenays. If those guys stop then there will be no black market pot to sell, and they're stopping. It might not stop completely right away but I wouldn't imagine it takes more than 3 years.

It's not even that these suppliers will go into exit strategy. They'll just try and get a commercial license and sell to a dispensary.

Why would you keep making moonshine and sell it on the street when you can get a license, make moonshine and sell it to a legal liquor distributor and not risk jail.

I'm not saying criminals are smart, but they aren't complete idiots. They're not going to risk jail time over something then can do legitimately.

[CliffFletcher]

Most dispensaries are going to be shut down because they're illegal. The ones that transition to legitimate businesses are going to have substantially higher costs once they have to pay licensing fees and taxes, and meet strict regulatory standards.

People think the grey market dispensaries are what a legalized market will look like. They're not. The government tolerated them while we sorted out legalization. Once the legal retail regime is in place, the government is going to crack down on dispensaries, and crack down hard. Legit retailers will have to meet strict health and security regulations, pay taxes, and have minimum pricing. In Ontario, sales will be confined to government stores.

Those articles I linked to cover this stuff in depth. We don't have to exchange anecdotes.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most dispensaries are going to be shut down because they're illegal. The ones that transition to legitimate businesses are going to have substantially higher costs once they have to pay licensing fees and taxes, and meet strict regulatory standards.

People think the grey market dispensaries are what a legalized market will look like. They're not. The government tolerated them while we sorted out legalization. Once the legal retail regime is in place, the government is going to crack down on dispensaries, and crack down hard. Legit retailers will have to meet strict health and security regulations, pay taxes, and have minimum pricing. In Ontario, sales will be confined to government stores.

Those articles I linked to cover this stuff in depth. We don't have to exchange anecdotes.

The poster who brought up the anecdotal evidence that the regular users he “knows” will just continue hitting the black market doesn’t get to turnaround and decry anecdotal evidence once it all points to the opposite of what he said.

The truth is, most dispensaries won’t be shut down. Most dispensaries will move to a legal model, and there will be even more dispensaries than there currently are. The costs won’t be substantially higher, they’ll be higher, but so too will the revenue. It’s the cost and benefit of doing business, legally.

You act like having strict health regulations is something nobody wants. Yeah, it’s going to exist, but ask how many heavy cannabis users how important quality is to them. Then ask them if they’re willing to pay a little more to ensure their product is high quality and meets health standards. Then ask them if, in addition for that little bump in price, they’d like the freedom of choice, freedom of purchase, and freedom of use. Ask them if they’d like to be able to know about their grower, what sort of process they use. Ask them if they’d like to know they’re paying for product grown ethically in quality controlled environments. Ask them if they’d like to buy their cannabis without dealing with the unknown, or seeing a doctor and talking about whatever medical issue they have to in order to jump through the required hoops for easy access.

The fact is, the cost increase will exist, but everyone (from growers to customers) will benefit from the legal market.

The medical space is already filled with legitimate dispensaries that are doing incredibly well, often at higher price brackets than your boy “Terry,” and that includes customers who would otherwise fall comfortably into the retail market.

You’ve every right to your opinion, but watching someone continuously tell others that nobody is going to buy Village, Tool Shed, Coors, or whatever, when their buddy home brews and charges a few dollars less, is just funny. It’s out of touch. A lot of Canadians have a lot of educational ahead of them concerning the cannabis industry.

[CliffFletcher]

You might want to start your own education by reading the articles. It's the experts who are warning the black market isn't going away anytime soon.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You might want to start your own education by reading the articles. It's the experts who are warning the black market isn't going away anytime soon.

This is a rare case where I actually work for a company who deals directly with multiple growers and distributors who are at multiple stages in the approval process. My job revolves around analysing the obstacles and opportunities of our clients, and with multiple cannabis clients, I can guarantee my education level on the industry far surpasses someone who has read a couple articles.

You’re making connections that are not there. The “reveal” that Canadians pay an “average” of $6~ a gram are not revelatory or surprising to the industry, nor is the fluctuation in stock prices. Neither of these things are indicative of “Terry” “not being out of business anytime soon,” and I can only recommend that you expand your sources of information, based on what you believe.

The black market is going to crumble based on the current look of legalisation, and every grower or distributor are not idiots, they know the industry, they know what’s coming, and they’ve prepared to enter an industry with a lot of unknowns (and are primed to adapt).

Please, just look deeper into the industry and legalisation precedents before continuing this ridiculous assertion that the black market is going to last, and that “Terry” is impervious to the juggernaut of business disruption that is legalisation of a black market.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Being competitive isn’t about just beating a price, it’s about justifying value, and the government seems to know that as well.

To say that Terry is going to continue to compete with a legal industry is just far fetched. What’s the historic precedent for it?

Quality product produced in a properly controlled environment, a regulated market, outside of black market reach with the option to have it delivered to your home, go into a shop, or grow your own is going to beat out Terry 9/10 times.

And if Terry gets beat out 9/10 times, eventually Terry is going to find something else to do.

I won’t question your sources of regular users, but if we’re being anecdotal, out of the dozens of people I’ve talked to I haven’t met one who is actually considering continuing to buy on the black market.

one thing some of you are overlooking is concentrates, there won't be any BHO sold at any licensed dispensary considering it's illegal to use solvents for extraction....

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

one thing some of you are overlooking is concentrates, there won't be any BHO sold at any licensed dispensary considering it's illegal to use solvents for extraction....

Hahaha some of you guys are so dumb. I've never even heard of bho. Whatever it is will have no impact on anything. When marijuana is legal, people will buy from legitimate businesses, end of story.

[Flash Walken]

i'll buy from whoever delivers on time.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Hahaha some of you guys are so dumb.

And proceeds to say:

Originally Posted by Sliver

I've never even heard of bho. Whatever it is will have no impact on anything. When marijuana is legal, people will buy from legitimate businesses, end of story.

Either this is brilliantly-crafted irony, or a lack of self-awareness on a scale that is almost unimaginable.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Hahaha some of you guys are so dumb. I've never even heard of bho. Whatever it is will have no impact on anything. When marijuana is legal, people will buy from legitimate businesses, end of story.

butane hash oil, shatter etc... You don't know that "dabs" are extremely popular? wtf you're behind man...

[Flames_Gimp]

extraction using organic solvents is illegal (dangerous if done indoors), sure, pressed rosin or co2 extraction is also a popular legal option, but flower extracted with butane and then winterized (de-waxed) in Ethanol or isopropyl is great stuff. No weed store in Canada will sell it.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

one thing some of you are overlooking is concentrates, there won't be any BHO sold at any licensed dispensary considering it's illegal to use solvents for extraction....

No BHO =/= No concentrates. There will be oils and concentrates. CO2 is, arguably, a much better (and certainly safer and more consistent) method of extractions.

Either way, just don’t be an idiot and buy BHO from a low grade source, or try to make it yourself. Unless you enjoy consuming butane.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The black market is going to crumble based on the current look of legalisation, and every grower or distributor are not idiots, they know the industry, they know what’s coming, and they’ve prepared to enter an industry with a lot of unknowns (and are primed to adapt).

Sorry, I put more stock in the predictions of the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, the RCMP, the OPP, the C.D. Howe Institute, the Canadian parliamentary committee on marijuana legalization, Ontario's attorney general, the federal health minister, the federal Department of Public Safety, B.C.'s provincial-municipal committee in charge of crafting the province's cannabis rules, the Cannabis Trade Alliance of Canada, the editor of the BCMI Report on the marijuana market, the CEOs for several of Canada's largest legal marijuana providers, who all say the black market will persist in Canada after legalization.

I'm always amazed at people who will take 15 minutes to post arguments about a subject, but won't take 5 minutes to read a couple stories about that same subject to increase their knowledge.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Please, just look deeper into the industry and legalisation precedents before continuing this ridiculous assertion that the black market is going to last, and that “Terry” is impervious to the juggernaut of business disruption that is legalisation of a black market.

I never made the claim the black market is impervious to business disruption. I'm just pointing out the consensus of experts that the black market will still continue to have a large share of the pot business in Canada once it's legalized.

And if you want precedence, how about the precedence of pot legalization in Washington, Oregon, and Colorado, where studies put the black market share of consumption at 51, 49, and 27 per cent, respectively.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

No BHO =/= No concentrates. There will be oils and concentrates. CO2 is, arguably, a much better (and certainly safer and more consistent) method of extractions.

Either way, just don’t be an idiot and buy BHO from a low grade source, or try to make it yourself. Unless you enjoy consuming butane.

But you said the black market will crumble didn’t u? So there won’t be a source for BHO anymore

Almost any bho producer uses a vacuum oven for a proper purge of any butane

[Flames_Gimp]

Black market for concentrates is huge and going strong, if anything, the shutting down of all the illegal dispensaries is going to create a market for everything the licensed distributors can’t sell. Black market terry will still be around.

Another point you think the lp’s can handle the demand? No way

[iggy_oi]

What’s the illicit market been like in Colorado and Washington states?

[Kiran403]

The black market won't disappear overnight but it will significantly erode within 3-5 years. Especially after Summer 2019 when edibles and extracts become part of the legal supply chain. Up until now the black market had a leg up because they were the only ones to supply the adult-use market and carried a variety of products. When legalization hits this year they aren't the only supplier anymore and when edibles/extracts become legal in 2019, then they have to compete for that share as well.

[Ducay]

I would imagine all the online MMO stores will simply shift more to concentrates and other "hard to gets" once legalization comes into force, given some provinces are limiting online and edibles/concentrates, there will be enough meat left on the bone for a few of the MMOs to survive. Certainly not in the number they exist right now though.