Canadian Military News

[llwhiteoutll]

He also apparently claimed the same thing on the campaign trail a couple of years ago, but just never got called on it.

His "apologies" are also pretty stupid. He didn't make a "mistake", he outright lied.

[automaton 3]

Gotta be close to the end of the road for Sajjan.

From what I understand, he served well. Kinda going haywire now though.

[CaptainCrunch]

The dumbest thing were the Liberals raising a stink over the F-35 price tag of roughly 16 billion bucks in total or a cost of which at a top end would end up being about $246 million a plane for 65 planes. Of course some of the cost would be based around the dropping Canadian dollar. These planes would probably be our main craft for about 30 years.

Instead we are going to buy 18 Super hornets that are only going to last a dozen years at a cost of about of $388 million per plane and they are far less capable then the F-35

[btimbit]

Oh don't worry though, even though they might only be good for a decade or so, they'll still try and make the super hornets last like 30 years

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Gotta be close to the end of the road for Sajjan.

From what I understand, he served well. Kinda going haywire now though.

Sure, from everything I've read he was a very good intelligence officer. But the deal is this.

If he had been in uniform when he lied about being the architect of Madusa and then been caught in misleading the ethic commissioner he probably would have been charged with conduct unbecoming and some other things and been thrown out of the service.

He's badly embarrassed himself the honorable thing is to realize that he's lost all respect and resign, and I'm talking leave his seat as well.

[CaptainCrunch]

Our defense minister decides to skip a fundraiser for Afghan Vets that he had committed too.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...r-for-veterans

Harjit Sajjan has bowed out of an annual fundraising event originally set up for veterans of the war in Afghanistan, an event whose main beneficiaries include military personnel returning from combat.


The embattled defence minister is, however, pressing ahead with a speech Wednesday to members of the Conference of Defence Associations Institute, billed by his department as an update on “the state of Canadian defence.”
Sajjan had been scheduled to speak at the 8th annual “To the ‘Stan and Back” event Tuesday, but founder Cheri Elliott said she was told a scheduling conflict had arisen and he would not be able to attend.


“The official reason for his not being able to attend is he was asked to be elsewhere at the time. That is what I was told,” said Elliott, who is the mother of a serving Canadian Forces member.

[llwhiteoutll]

Would love to hear what was so important that came up at the last minute.

[peter12]

I read this stuff, and I feel sick.

Globe & Mail - Saijan to lower expectations for future military purchases

In particular, defence officials said there are 18 major projects, which are all essential to the continuing operations of the Armed Forces, that are currently unfunded. As such, any future budget increases awarded to the Department of National Defence would have to go to these projects rather than to new purchases that will be called for in the defence policy review.

The unfunded projects include a replacement fleet for Canada’s decades-old Aurora aircraft, new communications satellites for the Arctic, new military-grade bulldozers and new refuelling trucks. All together, these projects are worth well more than $10-billion, with additional needs to train CAF members.

It is just so depressing. Hopefully, this turns into more of a scandal, and into an election issue, but you can just feel the malaise rolling off this government when it comes to the CAF.

[CaptainCrunch]

Minister Saijan is just an utter failure in this role and even beyond the integrity issues he's a blundering incompetent.

Setting aside his multiple lies, as Defense Minister he has stood by and allowed the Defense budget to be slashed to a historical low.

He can blame the Conservatives for not doing enough, but the Governments of Chretien, and Martin and Trudeau caused the current situation where the armed forces will never be able to catch up.

We've seen examples of the Liberal Governments making the ship building situation an even bigger blunder in motion especially on the resupply ships.

The whole F-35 and Super Hornet file showed that the government has decided that transparency is bad for the narrative and spending $7 billion dollars for 18 end of life jets that will only fly for 12 years is a sheer level of idiocy that just can't be denied. They are essentially going to buy far less capable jets then the F-35 for nearly 3 times the price tag. That alone should get him fired and start an all party hearing into the defense department with the duel goals of addressing the slow death of the Canadian Forces and the procurement process for the Canadian Forces capital projects.

For Saijan to give a speech blaming the Conservatives is the height of hypocrisy. On top of that taking a Canadian Forces on the verge of rust out and increasing its operational tempo (Latvia, Iraq and soon to be announced a incredibly dangerous peace keeping exercise) shows that this Minister is a complete fool.

With the F-35 going into its major testing cycle next year while we're seeing operational squadrons in the US Marine Corp, the US Air Force and Israel, while other nations are receiving their training and test bed aircraft all while the price is now going to increase because of the decline in the Canadian dollar actually makes this blunder worse the Chrietien's helicopter scandal.

As its stands now he's also lied about the urgency in replacing the CF-18's a lie as senior Air Force members have stated that the current fleet can probably operate until a permanent replacement is decided on.

I said from the start that I didn't have a lot of faith in Saijan, but I expected him to be half way competent. Instead he's not only incompetent, but he's all too willing to outright lie. Former Soldiers don't always make good leaders or Ministers

Fire him, move Marc Garneau over from from the Ministry of Transport to the Ministry of Defense a position that I was calling for him to fill right after the election

Also the defense white paper on the future of the Canadian Forces has to include a strong recommendation in terms of funding increases and capital purchases, because for every year that this rust out continues it means that the chances of a failure in capability and also a mass reduction of moral which will make the moral under Trudeau's father look like a walk in the park.

Some people have said that he's apologized and as Canadian's we're obligated to accept it and let him move on. But he can't move on, he has no credibility.

Also in terms of him skipping the fundraiser for Afghanistan Veterans (Who I might add are part of a class action suit being filed by them against the Government over their campaign lies over fixing veteran disability benefits) which would have been an opportunity to man up, shows that maybe he's a bit of a paper tiger.

[CaptainCrunch]

This thing is about to spiral out of complete control

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/05/03...afghan-torture

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...-it-helped-him

The inquiry into detainee transfers that the Liberal opposition demanded of the Consevatives, and then killed once they got into government is going to have to be re-opened now.

It sounds like its also pretty clear that Saijan gained intelligence from his sources who used torture on transferred detainees.

Also I think there has to be an inquiry into Saijan's conduct with the Ethics Commissioner.

This thing is moving into critical emergency territory and I'm not sure how Justin can fire him after knowing all of this and standing by his side in Parliament.

Also in terms of confusing I was looking at some discussion places that talk about all things Canadian Military and General Vance doesn't seem to have a seat at the table in terms of working with the Government on their upcoming defense policy paper. The top soldier, the guy, the CDS is basically waiting like the rest of us to see what the Liberals have in mind.

Amazing.

[Azure]

OTTAWA -- Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan will set the stage today for the Liberals' much-anticipated defence policy by casting a glaring light on what senior defence sources say is a massive "hole" in military spending.

The hole has been caused by years of under-investment in the Canadian Armed Forces, the sources argue, and resulted in little-to-no money for the replacement of essential, but aging, equipment.

The list, known in defence circles as the "Key 18," includes new logistical vehicles and engineering equipment, surveillance aircraft, and communications satellites for the Arctic.

The sources spoke on condition of anonymity.

The shortfall, which adds up to tens of billions of dollars, also includes upgrades to the military's current fleet of search-and-rescue helicopters and training for aircrews.

The result is that work that should have already been underway to buy 18 core pieces of equipment and services that the military needs has been stalled, the sources said, if it has started at all.

The extent of the problem hasn't been understood outside National Defence, said the sources, and caught the Liberals by surprise when they took office in November 2015.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/sajja...licy-1.3395649

Bit of a different spin than what earlier articles had.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/sajja...licy-1.3395649

Bit of a different spin than what earlier articles had.

You mean the one where Vance said that they were practically rolling Scrooge McDuck style in all of the money they had and how they pretty much couldn't spend it all in a lifetime?

Nice Satire piece from CBC Comedy

http://www.cbc.ca/comedy/harjit-sajj...ster-1.4093524

OTTAWA, ON—A contrite Harjit Sajjan apologized to the people of Canada today, saying that he regrets calling himself the architect of an Afghan offensive called Operation Medusa in 2006.
He says that he understands this is a major breach of his responsibility and that he may have to step down as prime minister.

[Azure]

It seemed like earlier reports were saying that spending was going to be vastly reduced despite the already obvious problem of not enough being done.

Who knows what will actually happen.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Azure

It seemed like earlier reports were saying that spending was going to be vastly reduced despite the already obvious problem of not enough being done.

Who knows what will actually happen.

We really won't know until the Libs release their defense paper which will probably happen the day before the summer break.

But at the end of the day, I would expect that they're going to be doing a bandaid and a small one at that, especially if it helps Saijan in terms of public relations.

They're basically picking in a sense low dollar capital purchases as their battle points.

[CaptainCrunch]

A must read about the post Morten of Operation Medusa

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-investigation

As opposition politicians continue to hammer Canada’s defence minister for trying to claim credit as “the architect” of a major Afghan war operation, some in and out of uniform are questioning why anyone would want to have what, is arguably, a dubious honour.
In some military circles, the 2006 Canadian-led Operation Medusa is seen as a failur

But a U.S. military investigation, which included more than 33 interviews with military planners and those Canadians who fought in the battle, concluded that Medusa was a defeat for coalition forces and a tactical victory for the Taliban.
Retired Canadian Maj.-Gen. Charles Sullivan, involved in the investigation, said in an interview with Postmedia Tuesday he was surprised the minister sought credit as the architect of the operation. “(Medusa) showed how ill-prepared the Canadian Army was, as well as all the deficiencies that existed as it went into an operation it could not execute,” Sullivan said.

hat, however, did not stop some journalists and Canadian and NATO senior officers from declaring Medusa a tremendous success. Their claims of large-scale Taliban casualties caused by the operation have also been called into question, Sullivan wrote.
“The guys I met and interviewed, the front-line fighters that actually executed the operation, were the most courageous and dedicated group of military members I have seen,” he added.
But, according to Sullivan, they were the ones who raised questions about the accuracy of the extensive Taliban casualty estimates being touted at the time by the media and the leadership.
Instead, the bulk of the Taliban force melted away, only to return later with new and improved tactics that put emphasis on roadside bombs and more synchronized smaller attacks. That resulted in both increased coalition and civilian casualties, Sullivan said.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

A must read about the post Morten of Operation Medusa

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...-investigation

In fairness, that sounds a lot like every exercise and operation I ever went on.


Typical Officer Corps.

[peter12]

Governments don't exist to govern anymore, but to win the next election.

[Azure]

I don't get it though. Governments love to spend money, and most Canadians would have nothing against spending money on the military.

Just strange.

[CaptainCrunch]

No new funding and a basic message of I don't know what to do by or defense minister today.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle34890580/

I don't know if I can really answer your question properly but I'll try Azure.

Basically the Forces has been attacked on two sides politically and past experience.

Politically here's what I see.

Look at the prior Prime Ministers.

Pierre Trudeau hated the Military and hated the members with a passion, he had a loathing of them both in terms of his more pacifistic leanings and that he didn't trust them to follow his orders. Because of that he pretty much spent money on everything but the Military.

John Diefenbaker during the Cuban Missile Crisis he was loathed to get involved and refused to raise the alert level of the Forces. The Canadian Forces basically told him to take a hike and increased their alert status anyways eventually to save face Dief retroactively allowed Canada's forces to go to Defcon 3.

Lester B Pierson wanted to be the peace keeper prime minister and continued to dissemble the Canadian Forces while at the same time getting involved in the development of UN Peacekeeping.

Trudeau he didn't like us, and we didn't particularly like him and he completely gutted the forces out of sheer vindictiveness.

Brian Mulroney promised a lot, a entire modernization of the Forces but then the Soviet Union fell and he decided to spend the money elsewhere basically breaking the back of the Forces.

Jean Chrietien was like Trudeau he had the Liberal hate of the Forces and on top of that he also viewed members of the Military with quite a bit of disdain behind the scenes. He also got slapped in the face when he sent several senior officers down to the States for a conference on Desert Storm to offer Canada's help, when the officers got down there they were basically laughed out of the room. So instead he hid behind the UN legitimacy argument and then sent our badly equip troops to Afghanistan. He also decided to continue to gut the defense budget.

Harper tried initially when he came in he did a crash program to bring the deployed forces into the modern world he also increased our heavy lift capabilities and started the Jet Fighter replacement program. He also tried to straighten out the outright mess made by Chretien in terms of things like Helicopter procurement. But the global economic collapse happened and most procurement and modernization was scaled back.

Justin Trudeau reduced defense spending to a historic low. He also has no understanding of the Military which shows in his insistent on deployments while gutting it from the inside.

So in conclusion. We have had a steady string of Prime Ministers who don't really have an understanding of the need for a decently equip stand alone military.

On top of that I think our Prime Ministers all have the romantic image of a military that can be neglected in a time of peace and then built up quickly in times of war. The whole punch above their weight commentary. Unfortunately it shows that our Prime Ministers have been clueless for a long time because frankly the Military's of the first and second world wars and even Korea didn't have the complex technologies and training requirements of a modern army that must be properly equipped lavishly trained and have a high level of experience in their officers core and senior NCM core.

We've also had Prime Minister that believe that the American's will come running and pay our bills in a crisis. But as one Prime Minister was told by a President not too long ago. "Some day a President, and I'm not saying this President isn't going to accept your defense policy"

[peter12]

Who Killed the Canadian Military by Jack Granatstein is a good in-depth explanation that pretty much follows what CC laid down.

I disagree with CC a bit on how much the military has changed since WW2. During that war, Canada fielded a full field army for the first and last time. The Canadians had to learn everything from scratch but by 1945, had an army capable of taking on elite, well-equipped German divisions through a well-honed combined arms doctrine. Artillery, for instance, was far more comprehensively integrated in infantry. We have fallen a very long ways.