Black Lives Matter get police float kicked out of Pride Parade

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

This acronym changes so frequently. What is the 2?

LGBTQ2S - Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender/Transsexual, Queer, Questioning, and Two Spirit

And before you ask: Two Spirit = Refers to a person who has both a masculine and a feminine spirit, and is used by some First Nations people to describe their sexual, gender and/or spiritual identity.

[White Out 403]

lol.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Let me, as a straight white man, tell these uppity blacks gays alternative persons how to conduct their personal business.

I wonder what the results would be if there was a vote on this held by the gay community in Toronto.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I wonder what the results would be if there was a vote on this held by the gay community in Toronto.

I can't speak for Toronto but I can say it's been pretty universally lauded by my LGBTQ friends on the West Coast, especially the older ones who still remember how the police treated the community in the past. I believe Vancouver Pride has adopted a similar stance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I can't speak for Toronto but I can say it's been pretty universally lauded by my LGBTQ friends on the West Coast, especially the older ones who still remember how the police treated the community in the past. I believe Vancouver Pride has adopted a similar stance.

Here's why I think its stupid.

You break down walls by helping both sides gain an understanding of each other. To open the lines of communication. To get both sides to realize that both sides are made up of human beings.

You create suspicion, anger, resentment by exclusion on both sides.

By excluding the cops, its pretty clear that BLM and the LGBTO don't want to create an atmosphere of acceptance and understanding and communication.

Both sides are now basically going to continue to dehuminize each other.

MLK probably would have been the exact opposite of BLM, he would have opposed the concepts of BLM which is to create anger and suspicion. He probably would have invited the cops in so that they could understand that they're dealing with people and not stereotypes.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He probably would have invited the cops in so that they could understand that they're dealing with people and not stereotypes.

Well he might have, if they weren't spraying him down with fire hoses and siccing German Shepherds on his gonads.

Also I find it hilarious that apparently MLK was the only Black civil rights activist and nothing any other activist did mattered or moved the needle at all.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Here's why I think its stupid.

You break down walls by helping both sides gain an understanding of each other. To open the lines of communication. To get both sides to realize that both sides are made up of human beings.

You create suspicion, anger, resentment by exclusion on both sides.

By excluding the cops, its pretty clear that BLM and the LGBTO don't want to create an atmosphere of acceptance and understanding and communication.

Both sides are now basically going to continue to dehuminize each other.

Sorry, but why do the police need to be invited into the parade in order to not suspicious and discriminatory against PoCs and the LGBTQ2S? I've not technically been invited into the parade and I'm quite capable of not acting in that manner. Secondly, have the various police organizations ever expressed remorse or contrition for their past actions against PoCs and the gay community? If someone came into my house, attacked the people I loved, and expressed very little sincere remorse about it, what reason would I or the people I love have to invite said person back? On what grounds would you expect us to feel safe and comfortable around this person?

MLK probably would have been the exact opposite of BLM, he would have opposed the concepts of BLM which is to create anger and suspicion. He probably would have invited the cops in so that they could understand that they're dealing with people and not stereotypes.

Yeah no. There's been a great deal of successful whitewashing of MLK's legacy but even this is a bit much.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well he might have, if they weren't spraying him down with fire hoses and siccing German Shepherds on his gonads.

Also I find it hilarious that apparently MLK was the only Black civil rights activist and nothing any other activist did mattered or moved the needle at all.

Different time man.

But if you think cutting off lines of communication, exclusion, making your the members of your group suspicious angry and hateful. Then go nuts.

[FireGilbert]

Sydney's LGBT Mardi Gras Parade last year:

Spoiler!

There is a history of some absolutely deplorable acts by police against the gay community in Sydney but it is great to see that both sides have moved on.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Also I find it hilarious that apparently MLK was the only Black civil rights activist and nothing any other activist did mattered or moved the needle at all.

Well there aren't a lot of other black activists who have speeches that can be as nicely and disingenuously appropriated by whites for the purposes of subduing and delegitimizing black rights activists.

[rubecube]

Hypothetically speaking, if a hard right government somehow got into power in this country and started cracking down on anti-sodomy laws and other laws designed to discriminate against the gay community, do people truly believe that the police wouldn't go right back to raiding gay bars and cracking skulls?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Well he might have, if they weren't spraying him down with fire hoses and siccing German Shepherds on his gonads.

Yep, the police back then treated the black community far, far worse than it does to day. And yet MLK led a movement of peaceful resistance that overcame entrenched opposition to achieve tremendous progress. That's what moral stature can do for you. It's incredibly powerful.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Also I find it hilarious that apparently MLK was the only Black civil rights activist and nothing any other activist did mattered or moved the needle at all.

Name some of them. Name their achievements.

Stokely Carmichael? Angela Davis? What did they actually accomplish, besides getting a bunch of people killed, getting Nixon elected (twice), and making some celebrity champagne socialists feel like revolutionaries for a couple years?

Originally Posted by rubecube

Hypothetically speaking, if a hard right government somehow got into power in this country and started cracking down on anti-sodomy laws and other laws designed to discriminate against the gay community, do people truly believe that the police wouldn't go right back to raiding gay bars and cracking skulls?

So what's the solution? Walk me through this. What is being accomplished by putting up walls between the gay community and police besides nursing grievances? What tangible, measurable outcomes do you see, or hope to see from taking the stance BLM has taken?

But maybe I'm looking at things the wrong way. Rationally. Utilitarian. Maybe we're going through one of those periods when reason and sound judgement melt away, and people break into tribal packs to warm themselves around the fires of resentment and hate. Us. Them. Good. Bad. It won't accomplish anything. But I guess for some, accomplishing anything takes a back seat to group-feels and othering.

[Mightyfire89]

So, excluding the police is somehow supposed to make things better? I think the mere fact that they were participating has to be a net positive, doesn't it? Regarding trying to be progressive and bringing different groups of human beings together? I don't get it. Mind you, I'm a white male heterosexual, so what the hell do I know about their struggles.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

But maybe I'm looking at things the wrong way. Rationally. Utilitarian. Maybe we're going through one of those periods when reason and sound judgement melt away, and people break into tribal packs to warm themselves around the fires of resentment and hate. Us. Them. Good. Bad. It won't accomplish anything. But I guess for some, accomplishing anything takes a back seat to group-feels and othering.

Yeesh, that's some glum talk.

I don't think it's that complicated. It's more like "you haven't been nice to me and my friends, so no, you can't come to my birthday party and pretend we're all pals and get your picture taken".

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So what's the solution? Walk me through this. What is being accomplished by putting up walls between the gay community and police besides nursing grievances? What tangible, measurable outcomes do you see, or hope to see from taking the stance BLM has taken?

But maybe I'm looking at things the wrong way. Rationally. Utilitarian. Maybe we're going through one of those periods when reason and sound judgement melt away, and people break into tribal packs to warm themselves around the fires of resentment and hate. Us. Them. Good. Bad. It won't accomplish anything. But I guess for some, accomplishing anything takes a back seat to group-feels and othering.

Why did you quote me if you weren't going to bother answering my question? The point of the matter is that police officers as individuals are not being excluded from Pride, the police as a symbol of violence, hatred, and discrimination against the gay community are. What exactly is the problem with that? What exactly has the policing community done to show remorse for their past actions and continued actions against the gay community and PoC, other than the half-hearted PR stunt of wanting to be involved with Pride? What have they done to assure that they're taking meaningful steps to prevent future harm against these same people?

I also think there's a bit of a double-standard here. If say the Westboro Baptist Church suddenly came out and said "Nah, we're over that whole God hates fags business. Our bad. We'd like to march in your parade now," I kind of doubt there'd be an outcry over Pride excluding them.

EDIT: In before the "you're comparing WBC to the police," attempt to deflect from the question.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeesh, that's some glum talk.

I don't think it's that complicated. It's more like "you haven't been nice to me and my friends, so no, you can't come to my birthday party and pretend we're all pals and get your picture taken".

Exactly, you don't get to pretend you're an ally at your own convenience and for your own self-serving purposes when your history has been anything but as an ally.

EDIT: I should also add that I'm not personally for or against the exclusion of the police but I understand and sympathetic to the reasoning behind it.

[Bootsy]

Maybe black lives matter should be banned from the parade since historically the black community have been very violent and homophobic against gays.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Why did you quote me if you weren't going to bother answering my question? The point of the matter is that police officers as individuals are not being excluded from Pride, the police as a symbol of violence, hatred, and discrimination against the gay community are. What exactly is the problem with that? What exactly has the policing community done to show remorse for their past actions and continued actions against the gay community and PoC, other than the half-hearted PR stunt of wanting to be involved with Pride? What have they done to assure that they're taking meaningful steps to prevent future harm against these same people?

I also think there's a bit of a double-standard here. If say the Westboro Baptist Church suddenly came out and said "Nah, we're over that whole God hates fags business. Our bad. We'd like to march in your parade now," I kind of doubt there'd be an outcry over Pride excluding them.

EDIT: In before the "you're comparing WBC to the police," attempt to deflect from the question.

I guess this apology didn't count?
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/t...gay-community/

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

Maybe black lives matter should be banned from the parade since historically the black community have been very violent and homophobic against gays.

historically? they still are.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

historically? they still are.

Cite?