Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 08-04-2017, 08:13 PM   #81
kermitology
It's not easy being green!
 
kermitology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the tubes to Vancouver Island
Exp:
Default

No, I don't think this team can win a cup. There isn't a player on the team who can take the team and put it on his back. There's no Iginla in his prime.

No goaltending, defence is solid, but the forwards as a whole are underwhelming. There's some good to great players, but no game changers. Not even Gaudreau is a true game changer.

They'll top out as maybe a conference finalist.
__________________
Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
kermitology is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kermitology For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 08:25 PM   #82
GoJetsGo
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology View Post
No, I don't think this team can win a cup. There isn't a player on the team who can take the team and put it on his back. There's no Iginla in his prime.

No goaltending, defence is solid, but the forwards as a whole are underwhelming. There's some good to great players, but no game changers. Not even Gaudreau is a true game changer.

They'll top out as maybe a conference finalist.
The majority of the core is in their early 20s with great potential and room to grow / improve.

This post is so pessimistic it's laughable.
GoJetsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 08:47 PM   #83
MrMike
Franchise Player
 
MrMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Van Island
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
The majority of the core is in their early 20s with great potential and room to grow / improve.

This post is so pessimistic it's laughable.
I can understand where he is coming from, usually it takes some players to drag a team through a few rounds, as it looked like gezlaf was trying last year.

Nashville is the proof of a solid team that hit injury problems and couldn't complete with star power losing key pieces (Johansson)

If we look at them, they're too 3 defence in the league, a goalie that could have won them the cup but didn't, and just a solid group of towards playing a team game.

I really do think Smith can be an all-star again, but if realistically we are relying on our d to stay healthy and Smith to be on a hot streak at the time.
MrMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 08:56 PM   #84
GoJetsGo
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMike View Post
I can understand where he is coming from, usually it takes some players to drag a team through a few rounds, as it looked like gezlaf was trying last year.

Nashville is the proof of a solid team that hit injury problems and couldn't complete with star power losing key pieces (Johansson)

If we look at them, they're too 3 defence in the league, a goalie that could have won them the cup but didn't, and just a solid group of towards playing a team game.

I really do think Smith can be an all-star again, but if realistically we are relying on our d to stay healthy and Smith to be on a hot streak at the time.
Except the title of the thread isn't asking about next season, it's asking about the core, and it's potential.

Assuming every one of our young players isn't good enough to get us over the hump when they're all still very young and in some cases not even in their prime yet is completely putting a glass-half-empty spin on things.
GoJetsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 09:00 PM   #85
JFK
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Exp:
Default

Matthew Tkachuk has game changer written all over him.

The core, especially up front, is still growing too. Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett are all big potential game breaking pieces. Gaudreau has been a game changer at every level, he has and will be in the NHL too.
JFK is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to JFK For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 09:36 PM   #86
kermitology
It's not easy being green!
 
kermitology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the tubes to Vancouver Island
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
Except the title of the thread isn't asking about next season, it's asking about the core, and it's potential.



Assuming every one of our young players isn't good enough to get us over the hump when they're all still very young and in some cases not even in their prime yet is completely putting a glass-half-empty spin on things.


Let's think about the past few cup winners.

Penguins: all world centre, league leader and ultimate game changer in Crosby, augmented by very talented support throughout the forward core. Stable defence, and good to excellent goaltending.

Kings: Solid forward core, good depth and built for the playoffs forward core, excellent defence and exceptional goaltending.

Hawks: Forward group led by a game changer in Kane and a built for playoffs Toews, who isn't spectacular, but always shows up when the game is on the line. Very good defence and very good goaltending.

Compare that to Calgary.

Forward group has some good pieces, but no game changers. Monahan is a solid centre, good to very good, but not quite on an elite level. He produces in spurts, not consistently. Gaudreau is an elite scorer, but not built for playoffs. He has to be opportunistic. They have no RW, not a true high caliber one. Second line is very good, but inconsistent offensively. The rest of the forwards are mediocre for the most part. Not outstanding offensively or defensively.

Defence is very good, no real question marks, though some regression from Brodie over the past two seasons.

Goaltending is mediocre. We're putting our hopes in Parsons, like Gilles before him. Unproven and lacks experience. Smith is aging and Lack has never been much more than a low tier goaltender.

So, yeah, I stand by my assessment.
__________________
Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
kermitology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 09:43 PM   #87
GoJetsGo
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology View Post

So, yeah, I stand by my assessment.
Which as I mentioned, is ignorant, as it assumes a bunch of very young players in their early 20s are static and not capable of improving.

It's completely subjective at this point, but you're declaration there are no game breakers when the majority of the forward core are either just entering their prime (or like Tkachuk and Bennett, have yet to even scratch the surface) yea, it's wildly premature and pessimistic to write the group off as static and decidedly not good enough.
GoJetsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GoJetsGo For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 09:47 PM   #88
kermitology
It's not easy being green!
 
kermitology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: In the tubes to Vancouver Island
Exp:
Default

It's not ignorant, it's my opinion with a rationale. I don't see this group progressing as you do, that's not wildly uninformed or static progression, I just don't think this group has it in them to win a cup.

Maybe try a more tactful response instead of going on the offensive. It doesn't stimulate conversation.
__________________
Who is in charge of this product and why haven't they been fired yet?
kermitology is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to kermitology For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 09:48 PM   #89
JFK
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Exp:
Default

His post doesn't even mention Matthew Tkachuk, and if it does he lumps him into the second line, totally ignoring the fact he's a teenage hockey player with huge upside.
JFK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 09:48 PM   #90
Gaudfather
Franchise Player
 
Gaudfather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Right behind you.
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology View Post
Let's think about the past few cup winners.

Penguins: all world centre, league leader and ultimate game changer in Crosby, augmented by very talented support throughout the forward core. Stable defence, and good to excellent goaltending.

Kings: Solid forward core, good depth and built for the playoffs forward core, excellent defence and exceptional goaltending.

Hawks: Forward group led by a game changer in Kane and a built for playoffs Toews, who isn't spectacular, but always shows up when the game is on the line. Very good defence and very good goaltending.

Compare that to Calgary.

Forward group has some good pieces, but no game changers. Monahan is a solid centre, good to very good, but not quite on an elite level. He produces in spurts, not consistently. Gaudreau is an elite scorer, but not built for playoffs. He has to be opportunistic. They have no RW, not a true high caliber one. Second line is very good, but inconsistent offensively. The rest of the forwards are mediocre for the most part. Not outstanding offensively or defensively.

Defence is very good, no real question marks, though some regression from Brodie over the past two seasons.

Goaltending is mediocre. We're putting our hopes in Parsons, like Gilles before him. Unproven and lacks experience. Smith is aging and Lack has never been much more than a low tier goaltender.

So, yeah, I stand by my assessment.
Looking forward, not backward, this 2017/18 version of the Flames just might stack up very well against some of the SC champs in the past six of seven years (the Bruins, the Kings, even the Hawks). If the goaltending is there, and these young high potential players keep developing, you may have to write a different narrative about these Flames 10 months from now. That's why they play the game and that's why we're fans of it.
Gaudfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 09:49 PM   #91
GoJetsGo
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology View Post
It's not ignorant, it's my opinion with a rationale. I don't see this group progressing as you do, that's not wildly uninformed or static progression, I just don't think this group has it in them to win a cup.
But it is ignorant to assume very young players won't improve. You're welcome to your opinion, mine is that yours is short sighted and selling some very young, still developing players short.

Regardless, you've made how you feel clear. Sounds like the next few seasons will be a lot of fun for you with that outlook.
GoJetsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GoJetsGo For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 10:00 PM   #92
flamesfan1297
First Line Centre
 
flamesfan1297's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: I will never cheer for losses
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kermitology View Post
No, I don't think this team can win a cup. There isn't a player on the team who can take the team and put it on his back. There's no Iginla in his prime.

No goaltending, defence is solid, but the forwards as a whole are underwhelming. There's some good to great players, but no game changers. Not even Gaudreau is a true game changer.

They'll top out as maybe a conference finalist.
I think Tkachuk can be a game changer, maybe Bennet if he reaches full potential
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
I am demolishing this bag of mini Mr. Big bars.

Halloween candy is horrifying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anduril View Post
"Putting nets on puck."

- Ferland 2016
flamesfan1297 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to flamesfan1297 For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 10:00 PM   #93
Mister Yamoto
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Mister Yamoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
Which as I mentioned, is ignorant, as it assumes a bunch of very young players in their early 20s are static and not capable of improving.
Maybe we aren't mature enough to have predictions threads. kermitologys' assessment isn't ignorant at all. After all, how could it be? All we are really doing here is guessing.

He even said he could see the Flames going to the conference finals.

Every year 30 teams don't win the Stanley cup. Simple math says that it is unlikely that this group will win a cup.
Mister Yamoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 10:00 PM   #94
JiriHrdina
I believe in the Pony Power
 
JiriHrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoJetsGo View Post
But it is ignorant to assume very young players won't improve. You're welcome to your opinion, mine is that yours is short sighted and selling some very young, still developing players short.

Regardless, you've made how you feel clear. Sounds like the next few seasons will be a lot of fun for you with that outlook.
Many young players don't improve. While I don't share his opinion there is nothing ignorant about it.
You really need to try to accept the fact that people can have a different opinion than you and that doesn't make them ignorant, nor do you need to get in a fight about it.
JiriHrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JiriHrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 10:03 PM   #95
GoJetsGo
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriHrdina View Post
Many young players don't improve. While I don't share his opinion there is nothing ignorant about it.
You really need to try to accept the fact that people can have a different opinion than you and that doesn't make them ignorant, nor do you need to get in a fight about it.
By the definition of the word, I think it's ignorant to look at a group of young players like they've maxed out in potential when they're all in their early 20s and conclude there isn't a game breaker amongst them.

If we were talking about a group of veterans like the late 00s Flames, sure, but by the definition of the word I think it's apt to call out the above take as ignorant in suggesting this core won't improve and isn't good enough.
GoJetsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2017, 10:04 PM   #96
Jiri Hrdina
Franchise Player
 
Jiri Hrdina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Exp:
Default

I think you are ignorant regarding the word ignorant
Jiri Hrdina is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jiri Hrdina For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 10:06 PM   #97
GoJetsGo
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
I think you are ignorant regarding the word ignorant
It lacks awareness to suggest the group of players are currently as good as they're going to be with the age they are.
GoJetsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GoJetsGo For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 10:07 PM   #98
Mister Yamoto
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Mister Yamoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
I think you are ignorant regarding the word ignorant
I think he is being obtuse.
Mister Yamoto is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mister Yamoto For This Useful Post:
Old 08-04-2017, 11:18 PM   #99
Macho0978
First Line Centre
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Exp:
Default

People talk like playoff game changers are only the Crosby types or these game changers play at an elite level every playoffs for their careers.

Tampa - Johnson and Kucherov have had game changer type playoffs but Stamkos has never

Nashville - can we all say we knew Forsberg and Johansen were the type to step it up in the playoffs?

Pittsburgh - Crosby has been shut out for points in a series before. Malkin too against the Bruins

Chicago - Kane and Toews play this past playoffs?

San Jose - Couture? Almost got his career high in reg season points in 2016 playoffs (maybe slight exaggeration)

Sure there are guys who seems to step in up in the playoffs more than they don't. I remember a young Datsyuk being awful in the playoffs, he turned out ok too

Flames have a core that can win it all and it should stay the same or get better over the next 3 years. I believe the 2 years in the playoffs gives them experience they need to figure it out. I truly believe they played good enough to at least take the ducks 6 or 7 if Elliott made a save. If they lost in 7 and made the changes they did the media would be giving them more love. But people get blinded by the result too much and only see a sweep and a team that still needs major changes to get better to win it all
Macho0978 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Macho0978 For This Useful Post:
Old 08-05-2017, 04:19 AM   #100
calgaryblood
Lifetime Suspension
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hmmmmmmm
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild GM View Post
I think you are ignorant regarding the word ignorant
Just put him on ignore. His one goal on CP is to get into fights and act like his opinion is superior to everyone else's opinion.

Every thread he posts in he is arguing with someone or giving his unwanted opinion on another poster on a personal level.
calgaryblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:55 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021