2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Matt Reeeeead]

Even at the 80 point level we are talking about being a top 10 league scorer. These are pretty outrageous suggestions for his body of work. It's basically throwing out his entire body of work and suggesting at age 23 he's going to find a new level of skill he hasn't displayed before. It's bananas. And that's coming from a fan of Mark Jankowski.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

I don't think his development curve is that unique.

- Canadian High School Hockey in his draft year
- Second Youngest player from his draft class
- About 40-50lbs underweight on draft night
- 1st round pick whose GM as an extension of amateur scouting felt was clearly one of the top players in his draft class, but also thought needed 5+ years of development

That's pretty darn unique.

Breaking into the NHL at age 23 in more of a bottom six role is pretty typical.

He's breaking into the NHL in more of a bottom six role because we have a top 6 with no roster spots. That shouldn't be confused with an inability by him to play top six. If anything it's a shame he won't be playing PP or top 6 as a rookie.

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

Even at the 80 point level we are talking about being a top 10 league scorer. These are pretty outrageous suggestions for his body of work. It's basically throwing out his entire body of work and suggesting at age 23 he's going to find a new level of skill he hasn't displayed before. It's bananas. And that's coming from a fan of Mark Jankowski

Without referencing boxcar statistics, what new level of skill is it that Jankowski hasn't displayed before?

Jankowski has shown every level of skill needed to do that.

He reads the game very well and has a strong feel for where the puck needs to go on the power play whether that's towards the point, the slot, or the net.

He's shown absurd hands in tight and the hand-eye to play keep away against multiple sticks.
He's shown excellent vision.
He has the skating, both forwards and backwards.
He has the shiftiness with the puck to fool defenders.
He's upgraded his one time shot to an absolute cannon that rarely misses the mark.
He's upgraded his wrist shot to a snipe out of some deadly toe drags. His release is very quick.
His cycle game is still a work in progress, but that's not unheard of at his age. Cycling in the NHL is usually an Over-25 skill. Even for Hall of Famers.

It's not like these things are coming out of nowhere. When he was drafted he was compared to guys like Joe Nieuwendyk and Jason Spezza, both guys who have put up some very impressive scoring seasons in the NHL.

Call me a homer but I think skill is not a barrier holding Mark Jankowski back.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

- Canadian High School Hockey in his draft year
- Second Youngest player from his draft class
- About 40-50lbs underweight on draft night
- 1st round pick whose GM as an extension of amateur scouting felt was clearly one of the top players in his draft class, but also thought needed 5+ years of development

That's pretty darn unique.



He's breaking into the NHL in more of a bottom six role because we have a top 6 with no roster spots. That shouldn't be confused with an inability by him to play top six. If anything it's a shame he won't be playing PP or top 6 as a rookie.



Without referencing boxcar statistics, what new level of skill is it that Jankowski hasn't displayed before?

Jankowski has shown every level of skill needed to do that.

He reads the game very well and has a strong feel for where the puck needs to go on the power play whether that's towards the point, the slot, or the net.

He's shown absurd hands in tight and the hand-eye to play keep away against multiple sticks.
He's shown excellent vision.
He has the skating, both forwards and backwards.
He has the shiftiness with the puck to fool defenders.
He's upgraded his one time shot to an absolute cannon that rarely misses the mark.
He's upgraded his wrist shot to a snipe out of some deadly toe drags. His release is very quick.
His cycle game is still a work in progress, but that's not unheard of at his age. Cycling in the NHL is usually an Over-25 skill. Even for Hall of Famers.

It's not like these things are coming out of nowhere. When he was drafted he was compared to guys like Joe Nieuwendyk and Jason Spezza, both guys who have put up some very impressive scoring seasons in the NHL.

Call me a homer but I think skill is not a barrier holding Mark Jankowski back.

I mean sure, his draft slot was a bit unique, and the forecasting by the flames at the time would have been challenging, but it didn't change his development path. He still went to play against appropriate competition in college like other kids his size and age. The mere fact that he did so after being drafted was irrelevant. He's not the first lanky kid that was drafted and took some time to season prior to playing in the NHL. But do you know who else was lanky and undersized for his body at draft date? Joe Thornton. And when he filled out his frame he became an unstoppable force. But before fully filling out, he made strong progression in the NHL along the way. A player of his skill was able to do the development on the fly while still holding his own.

I appreciate the scouting report and agree with many of the comments. But it's a rad dramatic. He hasn't been the smallest guy at every level he's played at, and at some point, would have been decimating his competition if the overall package was anywhere near joe Thornton calibre. Janko has certainly performed well at the levels he's played at, and even culminated to being one of, if not the best forward in the ahl last year. But he certainly didn't over perform the competition a way superstars historically have.

You cite spezza, but at age 21 he put up nearly twice the points in the ahl than Janko did as a 22 year old. I mean, maybe that was the comparison at draft day, but he was so raw and hadn't played against advanced competition to that point. A lot has changed since then as Janko has developed. He simply doesn't stack up offensively like the players you are trying to compare.

Again, agree with many of the skills and traits you cite. To be a backlund or anisimov you need a high skill level. I think he has it, and that's one of the qualities that he will need to get there. But the spezza, Thornton, etc. Comparisons are really on another level that he simply hasn't shown the production to make it a reality. Its not meant to be a mark against him, the same would be said about nearly every other player entering the league.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GranteedEV]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on UPSIDE. Backlund might be a realistic outcome for Jankowski. A ceiling, he is not. I'm not sure Backlund is Backlund's ceiling, though... there's an argument to be made that he is grossly underutilized by the Flames.

Also you can't just ignore the fact that those star players (Spezza/Thornton etc) were playing hundreds of major junior games before their pro debuts. The best way to improve is to play high level games, and Jankowski didn't do that until college. His entire college career amounts to a shade over two long OHL seasons, which most major junior prospects have completed by the time they're eighteen. It And finally Spezza's big AHL season was neither his rookie pro season (it was the lockout season and that was the only reason he played in that league) and we don't have access to important information from that team (like, for example, Spezza's Time On Ice) to compare apples to apples - in fact given the era difference you can't really compare at all as that was an era where guys like Ladislav Smid were considered blue chip defensve prospects and guys like Spezza took full advantage. Comparing scoring totals for prospects is futile, too many important factors are shoved under the rug.

I don't know what Jankowski will become in the NHL. I do know he has the skill to be something special. I don't pretend to have the gift of clairvoyance to know what that means. I do know that I don't put much stock into his college or even AHL scoring, because too many factors are unknown.

[FBI]

At least we are debating how good Janko is going to be instead of how much a bust he's going to be.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Fwiw, the experience isn't as big of a deal to me. I think the physical maturation is what holds people back from the big time production than it is the lack of real game experience. The natural skill set can take over for prime players. For example the elite rookies these days often can step straight from junior to being big time scorers in the NHL immediately while learning on the fly, and developing physically. That type if skill level can just play at any level.

Could be where our disconnect is. Anyways - here's hoping Janko surpasses my expectations. He'd be a historical outlier of sorts, but outliers do happen, and will be more than satisfied eating a pile of crow if he truly becomes a superstar!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Beninho]

Jankowski could've easily played in the NHL last year, I wanted him to get called for playoffs and thought it was a massive mistake by this team to leave him off the roster especially with all sub par veterans we have. If you followed Stockton last year you know he was too good for that league, way too good

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Jankowski could've easily played in the NHL last year, I wanted him to get called for playoffs and thought it was a massive mistake by this team to leave him off the roster especially with all sub par veterans we have. If you followed Stockton last year you know he was too good for that league, way too good

I agree. I think he could have easily been called up and outperformed many bottom line players. His defensive abilities would make for a smooth transition.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Jankowski could've easily played in the NHL last year, I wanted him to get called for playoffs and thought it was a massive mistake by this team to leave him off the roster especially with all sub par veterans we have. If you followed Stockton last year you know he was too good for that league, way too good

I too thought it was a mistake not to bring him up, particularly to give him some extended NHL experience prior to this year. That could only be helpful.

But did he really dominate the AHL?

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Jankowski could've easily played in the NHL last year, I wanted him to get called for playoffs and thought it was a massive mistake by this team to leave him off the roster especially with all sub par veterans we have. If you followed Stockton last year you know he was too good for that league, way too good

Massive mistake is a little strong, it was his rookie season in the ahl

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I too thought it was a mistake not to bring him up, particularly to give him some extended NHL experience prior to this year. That could only be helpful.



But did he really dominate the AHL?

I would say pretty confidently that he was the best player in the ahl for at least the last half of the year. He's ready.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Muta]

Any trade rumours?

[Poe969]

Yes, Janko for Olli Maata.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I too thought it was a mistake not to bring him up, particularly to give him some extended NHL experience prior to this year. That could only be helpful.

But did he really dominate the AHL?

I'd say with it being his first year in the AHL he was dominant once he got comfortable. His second half was terrific offensively and defensively. He would've made a difference vs Anaheim. Thought it was odd that Lazar got way more of a look than Janko, considering Lazar was awful in the AHL.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

Anyways - here's hoping Janko surpasses my expectations. He'd be a historical outlier of sorts, but outliers do happen, and will be more than satisfied eating a pile of crow if he truly becomes a superstar!

Yeah, like I said, a bigger Backlund is a realistic outcome. But you look at a guy like Blake Wheeler and you realize that Jankowski wouldn't even be setting a historical precedent by becoming a ppg NHLer as far as high school drafted first rounders go. The path is right there in front of him. We don't have the ability to know, and that's why we watch.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

But did he really dominate the AHL?

Well if estimated statistics chart that's been posted a few times has any truth behind the stats it contains, Jankowski had

Spoiler!

-Bottom third teammate-quality
-Bottom half 5v5 ice time
-Top 3-percentile 5v5 goals rate
-Top 1-percentile primary points rate
-Toughest-in-AHL opposition quality

I don't think that's a far cry from "dominating". Against all odds, even.

Originally Posted by Muta

Any trade rumours?

Troy Brouwer for Jesse Puljujarvi but it would have to happen now to make sense to the Oilers.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I think we need to temper the Jankowski expectations. Lets see him dressed in the lineup first. He won't be putting up numbers in the press box or the AHL.

I'm happy with what he has done so far, but these past couple of pages show a lot of homerism.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think we need to temper the Jankowski expectations. Lets see him dressed in the lineup first. He won't be putting up numbers in the press box or the AHL.

I'm happy with what he has done so far, but these past couple of pages show a lot of homerism.

No way man!

We need to hype him out the ass, and then after he shows a bit of promise but inevitably hits some bumps along the development path, we can turn on him and start blaming all of the team's inadequacies on him!

...that's how we do it, right?

[PugnaciousIntern]

I'm quite sure that Jankowski doesn't think about Jankowski as much as CP thinks about Jankowski

[Wolfman]

So is Jankowski getting traded or what?

[FlamesNation23]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

I'm quite sure that Jankowski doesn't think about Jankowski as much as CP thinks about Jankowski

You mean Jankowski dosent think he’s joe thorton?!?