Don Cherry: "Teams were terrified of playing Calgary last year, but not anymore."

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Will our goon's beating the opposition goon give Johnny more room to wheel? No. When players take liberties with our stars, we need to push back in kind. We don't seem to have players who will do this. When a Kassian/Bieksa/Burrows hammers a Gaudreau/Hudler/Byron, someone needs to hammer a Sedin. It's as simple as that: if you take liberties with our best players, we will return the favor. You don't need goons to do that, just hard hitters.

I do think goons still have a role, although much smaller. How many times last year did we see Monahan getting messed with only to have Grats jump over the boards on the next shift and exchange some words? Unfortunately Grats hasn't been in the lineup to do that, and when he was in the lineup, he hasn't been doing it.

I was really wishing that Bollig would be an upgrade on Grats, worse at fighting but better at hockey. Unfortunately he's bad at both, rarely even throws a big hit.

On the second half of your post though I still agree 100%. Luckily we seem to have lots of these guys in the pipeline.

Or we need to find a way to add a foot to Paul Byron.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by devo22

I'm just surprised that some people are still interested in what this irrelevant and confused dinosaur has to say.

You're better than that.

You may not like him or agree with him, and that's fine.

But he knows more about hockey than you ever will, and even though he over-states it, there is an element of truth to his words.

Dismissing someone outright - especially someone involved with the game at the professional level for decades - is trite and foolish.

[transplant99]

I too agree with him...this Flames edition is far far to easy to play against. I have no issue dressing McGrattan for 8 minutes a night as long as he uses that time to crash and bang the other team as well as lay a beating on whomever might issue him a challenge. He makes everyone else on the team bigger.

Bolig has been less than useless in this role thus far.

[browna]

With Bouma's crazy shift where he ended up in the Stars bench (no replay on that on the jumbotron, surprise surprise), and then going nuts with a couple big hits and then and getting a penalty,it was the only physical play that was anything you'd consider the Flames did in trying to use physical play to try and change the momentum.

Bouma tried in the third, got hammered and that was that.

Cherry not, as usual, elegant, but certainly some truth behind his words. With Smid out, and Ferland on the farm it's pretty much Englland and Bouma as the guys out there actively looking to hit,and the other team doesn't have to worry about looking over their shoulders to see which Flame is going to hit them this shift. Nevermind if someone takes liberties with a skilled player, there is no line that will take back the game with a physical shift.

With the game in Vancouver tonight, a reminder that there is no player on the Flames tonight that started on the ice that Tortorella bezerk game.

McGrattan has to raise hell every shift he does play, and so does Bollig. McGrattan has done nothing of the sort the last two times he's dressed, and Bollig needs some Hartley shaming to get a fire lit under him.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Flames had zero push back against the Rangers, they dominated us physically. Not saying the Flames were "scared" but the Rangers beat up on us physically (in a legal fashion) and the Flames had no response. Given our make up, while I agree with you it would be much better to be able to play a physical game through our line up, we have almost zero players who do that. Until we do, the Flames might actually benefit from keeping other teams honest via the old way..........

Contrary to Don's point, McGrattan and Westgarth have zero impact on the opposition.
I acquiesce with your opinion...Calgary will get tougher to play against as the rebuild moves forward
Big, competitive and skilled throughout the lineup is always good.
That is why the Flames are 3-4 years from being a legitimate contender for the top prize.

[Buck Murdock]

McGrattan is only effective against another heavyweight...when guys take liberties with the Flames skilled guys he's useless. You need toughness throughout the line up, particularly in the top 6.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Flames need more guys like Hunter Smith and Michael Ferland on their roster to address this.

Not goons, but physical guys.

Look at the Kings with guys like Dwight King and Jordan Nolan. They can play and be a pain. That's what Cherry is talking about.

We're really missing Ferland, IMO. I know it doesn't show on the stats line, but I think Ferland is more useful to us than Raymond at this point in time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by timbit

Contrary to Don's point, McGrattan and Westgarth have zero impact on the opposition.
I acquiesce with your opinion...Calgary will get tougher to play against as the rebuild moves forward
Big, competitive and skilled throughout the lineup is always good.
That is why the Flames are 3-4 years from being a legitimate contender for the top prize.

Goons are practically extinct. The Flames could use some more players with an edge but lets not make it sound like when they started off the season on a tear that teams were fearing their physical game. Team is work in progress and there's no point in bringing in some career pluggers that add a little toughness that is going to take ice time away from some players the Flames are trying to develop.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

We need a bench clearing brawl to get this team back on track.

Maybe this was said tongue and cheek, but many many posters on this forum point to the nutso game against the Canucks last year as the turning point for the season. I've heard things like 'ever since the game against the Nucks last year, our record has been...'

That game *was* signficant to the Flames. McGratton was a huge part of that. I'm surprised that people are saying that enforcers are the way of the dinosaur when it was those dinosaurs that helped turn this thing around. It lit a fire under the team, probably bringing them closer together. Now, we have no presence. Suddenly, are we all of the mind that the Flames are a finesse team? I keep hearing Hrudey say that 'we could have won 4 of those 5 last games', but in my mind, the Flames were getting tossed around.

The Flames need to get a little more edgy in the way they play. If that's what Cherry was trying to say, then yes, I agree with it.

[Mony]

I don't think opponents were ever terrified of Calgary last year for the enforcers. More for their never quit attitude than anything else. They were afraid we'd be pesky.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by darthma

Maybe this was said tongue and cheek, but many many posters on this forum point to the nutso game against the Canucks last year as the turning point for the season. I've heard things like 'ever since the game against the Nucks last year, our record has been...'

That game *was* signficant to the Flames. McGratton was a huge part of that. I'm surprised that people are saying that enforcers are the way of the dinosaur when it was those dinosaurs that helped turn this thing around. It lit a fire under the team, probably bringing them closer together. Now, we have no presence. Suddenly, are we all of the mind that the Flames are a finesse team? I keep hearing Hrudey say that 'we could have won 4 of those 5 last games', but in my mind, the Flames were getting tossed around.

The Flames need to get a little more edgy in the way they play. If that's what Cherry was trying to say, then yes, I agree with it.

I was completely serious. It's not just toughness that this team lacks, but it is anger in general and the reputation that we are not to be toiled with. They need to have an us versus the world attitude. I think the minute they started to become a feel good story this season was right around the beginning of the recent slump. Cherry is right, we need to change our reputation and I think another high profile brawl with guys like McGrattan and Engelland let loose would go along way to changing that. Heck call up Gillies and let him go wild for a game or 2.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Flames need more guys like Hunter Smith and Michael Ferland on their roster to address this.

Not goons, but physical guys.

Look at the Kings with guys like Dwight King and Jordan Nolan. They can play and be a pain. That's what Cherry is talking about.

This and especially Ferland, I did like how he played in his callup but it left me thinking that he has more to give.

I would love to see him develop into a pocket enforcer, a guy with a genuine mean streak combined with a genuine jerk streak who plays a fearless physical game, will run anyone through the board and can battle. Ferland has the rare one punch knockout ability that he hasn't displayed at an NHL level.

But if can play with that nasty edge, its what the Flames need.

[Johnny Rotten]

After hearing what Don said near the end of last season, when he stated the Flames keep both Westgarth and McGrattan in the lineup for this season, I am not surprised he said what he did tonight. They could stand to get bigger and a little more physical. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Enoch Root]

I would even settle for them driving to the net more, at this point.

[Hanna Sniper]

Flames are playing soft, no big surprised we get called out for it

[Yamer]

Now, I don't think that teams were necessarily scared to play Calgary last year, and I don't think the Flames have lost as much grit from last year (if at all, really), but:

People bitch and whine about the irrelevancy of Cherry, calling him a dinosaur, taking faux offense to his hyper-Canadianness, poking at his inability to pronounce player names, blah blah blah...but, guess what? He's usually spot on with his observations and predictions. The guy knows his hockey, and the game hasn't passed him by like it has some. I will always respect his knowledge, experience, and opinion because it is actually worth something.

[dino7c]

wonder why he wasn't saying this two weeks ago

[Hemi-Cuda]

They're not easy to play against because there's no tough guy in the lineup, they're easy to play against because they're a mentally weak team that folds at the first sign of trouble. Weather a bit of pressure in your own end from the Flames, but you don't have to worry too much about them actually scoring, and then just wait for the inevitable breakdown in the Flames zone for an easy gift goal. Get a couple of those then sit on your lead for the rest of the night for an easy 2 points

The Flames are incredibly easy to read and figure out right now, and that's why they're such an easy opponent

[lanny9]

We have played butter soft, that there is no doubt about it. We are typically not taking the body but rather playing what I would consider a European game (not meant to be derogatory). Meaning North American hockey is rough and tough,we take the body first, not like you do with the big ice surface and stick work is more prevalent. The rest of the league, save for the oilers are playing NA hockey and we are trying to play a different style which does not suit the smaller ice nor our skill level. So in that respect I agree with Don, we are not intimidating at all and other teams are beating us with the style of game that works here. We need to have a mean streak and I'm not unfortunately seeing it at all!

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The Flames need more guys like Hunter Smith and Michael Ferland on their roster to address this.

Not goons, but physical guys.

Look at the Kings with guys like Dwight King and Jordan Nolan. They can play and be a pain. That's what Cherry is talking about.

Time to bring up the Wolf