4 dead on Everest in two days, 10 for the season

[GP_Matt]

Interesting,
I thought there were more people who were left alone as their team pushed on to the summit.

On the way down I can see the group getting pretty spread out and not realizing the condition of a teammate.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I experienced that to a lesser degree on 19,340 foot Kilimanjaro......

* So did you climb both peaks of mount kilimanjaro?




* monty python reference

[Doodlebug]

Why all the fuss about Everest, when K2 is generally considered a much tougher climb. Plus...you know you not going to be waiting in a long line to trek up.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I had a teacher in high school who climbed Everest, he used mountain climbing and Everest analogies for everything.

I really don't see the allure of risking your life for what amounts to bragging rights. When people die on that mountain I have a hard time feeling sorry for them. The only people I feel sorry for are the Sherpas who end up carrying these rich kids and their gear up that mountain. Another part that bothers me is the amount of garbage that's abandoned on that mountain with people discarding oxygen bottles and everything else on their way up. That mountain is sacred to the local people and it's turned into an extreme sports landfill.

I don't feel sorry for the Sherpas, they make a ton of money during their short careers given the amount they need to work.

We had a lady, can't remember her name right now, who talked to us at a company motivational type day thing this past year. She mentioned that part of the cost of buying the oxygen bottles was paying for them to be hauled up (and back down again).

I assume when you are saying there is stuff left up there that it is older? or do you know if there are people who just toss them anyway?

The one thing that amazes me about the Everest climb is that you go up and down many times between different camps for the trip to acclimatize yourself. Then you go to one camp (maybe 2nd or 3rd?) and do the whole thing all at once, once an acceptable weather window opens.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

Why all the fuss about Everest, when K2 is generally considered a much tougher climb. Plus...you know you not going to be waiting in a long line to trek up.

Although not considered a technically challenging climb, Everest is still the tallest in the world. I guess that is the reason for all the fuss.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

Why all the fuss about Everest, when K2 is generally considered a much tougher climb. Plus...you know you not going to be waiting in a long line to trek up.

K2 is far more difficult than Everest and is only climbed by legitimate mountaineers. I don't think you can arrange a guided trip to the top of K2.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I don't feel sorry for the Sherpas, they make a ton of money during their short careers given the amount they need to work.

We had a lady, can't remember her name right now, who talked to us at a company motivational type day thing this past year. She mentioned that part of the cost of buying the oxygen bottles was paying for them to be hauled up (and back down again).

I assume when you are saying there is stuff left up there that it is older? or do you know if there are people who just toss them anyway?

The one thing that amazes me about the Everest climb is that you go up and down many times between different camps for the trip to acclimatize yourself. Then you go to one camp (maybe 2nd or 3rd?) and do the whole thing all at once, once an acceptable weather window opens.

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...mount-everest/

[Doodlebug]

Ya...Everest just seems like the latest Adventure Tourism craze. Seems like a lot of these folks have no business attempting this climb.

[Hemi-Cuda]

what gets me is how many bodies are just left on the mountain, some are even used as markers now. is the general rule that all bodies are left where they fell due to the difficulty in bringing them down?

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Although not considered a technically challenging climb, Everest is still the tallest in the world. I guess that is the reason for all the fuss.

As with most mountains, the difficulty depends very much on the route taken. There are many challenging routes on Everest that most people never see or complete. Also, some people are acting like it's a Sunday stroll to get up and down Everest. Even with a guide, equipment and established route, it is still a very difficult thing to do. It is, however, a rich man's game to climb Everest. Hell, the trek just to get to base camp is something like 15-18 days.

[Doodlebug]

No point in all the expense for Everest, when Chimborazo is closer....and nothing like being able to say you been to the closet point to the sun on earth!

[Free Ben Hur!]

Originally Posted by fotze

That's easy to accept. I'll ignore the math error, but that paragraph sounds pretty selfish. It's for yourself and no one else and you put others at risk. Maybe selfish is too harsh a term. How about 'the motivations and benefits are singular to the person making the climb'?

Selfish is the perfect term. Everest is the ultimate act of self aggrandizement. Why would any one do it if not to talk about it. I mean, do people summit Everest and never mention it because its such a 'personal' acheivement? Bah! Those that are so enamoured with the romance and mythology of it all might want to put some of their considerable energy into cleaning up the mountain and dealing with the corpses.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

If the death rate of driving was 2.09% per trip then I would agree that both are selfish acts.
Something that rarely comes up is that a lot of the people who die on the mountain were left behind by the rest of their team. Often times this is done on the way up, meaning that the rest of the team has decided that reaching the summit is more important than the life of their teammate.
On a side note, take a look at how many motivational speakers are out there who have climbed Everest.

I'm not sure if you're pointing to this as a good thing or a bad thing?

I've sat through a couple of these speeches though, and I'm sure that this opinion won't make me terribly popular, but they were terrible. For some reason hearing that the guy on stage has done something that has been done by hundreds (or maybe thousands?) of other people is hardly inspiring or motivational. Despite their attempts to add drama and explain things the reality is that you already know the end of the story; they live and they climbed a big mountain!

One of the speakers I saw was the first "all women" team to make it (or something like that). Her speech was tied in with business success and goal setting and such. It was pretty lame. Maybe its just me, but it kind of feels like "I had this hobby and it was pretty cool. How can I get paid to tell people about it?"

I won't mention who the other Everest speaker was or what their circumstances were. I'll just say that at the end everyone gave a standing ovation for their talk and I felt obliged.

Who knows. It could be just me? I've seen some incredibly inspiring presenters and have nearly been in tears both in terms of sadness and laughing so hard because they were so engaging though; I don't have a heart of stone and I like a good story that is well told. The Everest speakers I've seen were just not there though.

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by Kavy

I have really no comment on the selfishness (or not) or people who climb Everest, but I think your stats are way off.

2% of all attempts on Everest end in death, 2% of all world wide deaths are due to cars, but that is not the same as 2% of all driving attempts end in death (for every 100 times someone gets into a car, 2 people don't die, instead for every 100 people who die, 2 die due to cars, there is a huge difference).

The thing is that the vast majority of people who do Everest do so once. People who use vehicles do so over and over. So your odds for each in the end are about the same. You are absolutely right that people who drive once are at less risk than people who climb Everest once. But that's not how it works. Nobody drives once in their lifetime and never again.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm not sure if you're pointing to this as a good thing or a bad thing?

I've sat through a couple of these speeches though, and I'm sure that this opinion won't make me terribly popular, but they were terrible. For some reason hearing that the guy on stage has done something that has been done by hundreds (or maybe thousands?) of other people is hardly inspiring or motivational. Despite their attempts to add drama and explain things the reality is that you already know the end of the story; they live and they climbed a big mountain!

One of the speakers I saw was the first "all women" team to make it (or something like that). Her speech was tied in with business success and goal setting and such. It was pretty lame. Maybe its just me, but it kind of feels like "I had this hobby and it was pretty cool. How can I get paid to tell people about it?"

I won't mention who the other Everest speaker was or what their circumstances were. I'll just say that at the end everyone gave a standing ovation for their talk and I felt obliged.

Who knows. It could be just me? I've seen some incredibly inspiring presenters and have nearly been in tears both in terms of sadness and laughing so hard because they were so engaging though; I don't have a heart of stone and I like a good story that is well told. The Everest speakers I've seen were just not there though.

I was pointing it out as a bad thing. They paid a ton of money to get to the top and all of a sudden they are qualified to inspire others. I don't get it.
The other thing that annoys me is when they start talking about being the first Ukranian-Canadian from Saskatchewan to summit on a Tuesday. I think credit should be limited to the first man and woman to succeed and from there should only go to those who have done something legitimately new, like a unique new route up the mountain or maybe setting a speed record or being the first to summit in the winter or solo.

[Bigtime]

I would also be impressed with someone like a blind person, or amputee making a summit. I think we can agree those are pretty special circumstances that are well past the "Ukranian-Canadian from Saskatchewan on a Tuesday".

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I was pointing it out as a bad thing. They paid a ton of money to get to the top and all of a sudden they are qualified to inspire others. I don't get it.
The other thing that annoys me is when they start talking about being the first Ukranian-Canadian from Saskatchewan to summit on a Tuesday. I think credit should be limited to the first man and woman to succeed and from there should only go to those who have done something legitimately new, like a unique new route up the mountain or maybe setting a speed record or being the first to summit in the winter or solo.

I totally agree, specifically with the "first" of a tiny little sub-group part. It just seems to diminish the act in my eyes if you need to qualify why its supposedly important.

[Tron_fdc]

I've read loads of books on Everest, and it's fascinating to see the politics behind a summit attempt. To the point that team members have made death threats to each other afterwards if something went wrong.

There are a number of expedition guides that will take you on, depending on how much you want to pay. Obviously, the quality of the guides will affect the price, and it's usually the cheaper ones that have the problems on the mountain. There have been instances where the top groups get together before the summit season, and share the cost to install ropes they intend to use throughout the year. Some of the independants don't share this cost, but still expect to take advantage of them. One year the ropes were taken down, and this was quickly followed by outrage by people who didn't pay into their installation, as it was exposing them to massive risks on summit attempts. This is only one example of the controversy surrounding the mountain, and there are many. Properly prepared camps were being looted by unprepared, desperate climbers, leaving the people who needed their supplies and had made the right prior arrangements for them without necessities, causing even more problems. Imagine coming down from a summit to what you expect to be a stocked tent, only to find it had been ransacked by someone in front of you for your supplies, because they didn't prepare properly.

I don't know if things have changed (hopefully they have) but the mountain was turning into a garbage dump of oxygen cylinders, tents, bodies, and human waste as nothing biodegrades at that altitude. I got the impression people were willing to pay any price to summit, and that included the price of supplies (theirs or peoples around them), as well as the actual price of human life. More than one case exists where climbers ignored struggling climbers either because they're in a different group, or because they had all agreed beforehand that the summit was worth more than someone losing their life.

Just about every book I've read on Everest since 1996's "Into Thin Air" has mentioned concerns over an increasing death toll unless it somehow gets regulated. I doubt that will happen anytime soon though, seeing how much money is made up there. You have to know there's a problem when there's a reality show with a British Supermodel's summit attempt come on the TV.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Slava

.....One of the speakers I saw was the first "all women" team to make it (or something like that)......

tickle fights in the death zone?

As for supermodels trying to summit - these gals are not just regular models, they have been given special powers to become super models. they can do anything and look great doing it.

surely there are enough groups of people (drywallers, car salesmen, D, E and F list celbs, former contestants of American Idol etc) who have not climbed everest to make several TV shows out of it.

[Bigtime]

I wonder if eventually the garbage problem could be taken care of by robots? No concern about human fatigue in that scenario. I would also wonder if they would remove the bodies from up there?