[Rumour] Couple of teams have inquired about acquiring Ben Bishop's rights

[guuar]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Holtby doesn't even make your list??

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Why would you consider Holtby to be a top goalie?

I've seen other Vezina quality goality goalies like Varlamov and Bobrovsky as well.

I think there is a difference between excellent goalies that make their team better and goalies that are excellent as a result of the team they play for.

People use the words ELITE way too often with way too many players. I believe there are 6-8 players at each position that can be considered ELITE and than many that are considered as good players.

In Holtby's case year after year Washington plays well in the regular season. Both their starting goalie and backup goalie have put up extremely good numbers.

When it matters most in the playoffs these goalies aren't able to take control and win games for their team. Holtby puts up great numbers for the Capitals. I would argue Brian Elliot would put up similar numbers playing for the Capitals.

Phillip Grubauer is a prime example. A lot of Flames Fans want Treliving to acquire him to be our #1 goalie. He's put up good numbers in the regular season so maybe he's another Kiprusoff in waiting.

Only problem is when given the opportunity he absolutely #### the bed and couldn't stop anything.

This is why I was a big believer that giving Gillies a shot in game #4 wouldn't have been the worst thing Gulutzan could have done. Gillies stands on his head and wins us a couple games we know we have our goalie.

Ironically this is how Matt Murray ended up becoming discovered as a #1 goalie in Pittsburg.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

MOD EDIT: Removed, please heed Moderator instructions earlier.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Oh, Cody Franson's cousin.

Well that explains how he knew exactly what deals Treliving had on the table last year.

Does Cody Franson's cousin eat lunch at food courts too? The mystery continues...

[Roof-Daddy]

The last two playoffs Holtby has put up save percentages above the .940's and GAA's around 1.7

How in the #### is it his fault the Caps lost out?

[Poe969]

I'd actually prefer if the Flames went after a goalie from a team that has a young backup they might lose to the expansion draft like Wash with Grabauer or whatever and then sign Bishop as a UFA.

I guess you run the risk of another team signing him but dealing for him doesn't guarantee he'll sign with the Flames anyway.

[Ullr]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Don't get smart with me pal. You are the one who didn't answer the questin properly and just threw a bunch of goalies names out there.

I said slightly above average goalies don't get nominated for the Vezina 2 of 3 years.

Hiller - NEVER nominated for the Vezina
Backstrom - ONCE 9 years ago
Bryzgalov - ONCE 7 years ago
Luongo - NOT A SLIGHTLY ABOVE AVERAGE GOALIE EITHER
Ward - NEVER nominated for the Vezina
Hammond - NEVER nominated for the Vezina


I could keep going but it's a waste of my time, you just made a list of mostly average goalies who maybe a good season or two here or there and arent comparable in ANY way to Bishop.

Go and check your facts guy. All it takes is a simple Google search (which you should know how to do) and you can find lists of all the nominees year by year. Hiller was nominated in 2012-2013.

Of course I threw a bunch of names out there, because there were SO many names to pick from. It's not like Bishop is the greatest goalie and the perfect solution for Calgary just because of his Vezina nominations. There's a ton of goalies who pan out to be less than stellar who have been nominated.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Moderator

The repeated attempts to "unmask" posters or tell posters what is wrong with them cause far more disruption than the attitude of the post itself.

It's a big world, there's going to be people who one will never agree with, or people who one will never be able to tolerate.

If you (the royal you, not one of the quoted posters) disagree with the content of a post, reply to the content. If you can't stand a poster's style, put them on ignore or use the superior ignore feature (the brain) to not read their posts and replies. If you think a poster is trying to be intentionally disruptive then report their posts and don't reply (engage the second option).

Hilarious. Thanks for the pointers. It's better to have low quality posts/content and to tell me how to ignore it rather than support someone who is nudging this guy to take a different tact. I even said please.

Good work. Got it.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Go and check your facts guy. All it takes is a simple Google search (which you should know how to do) and you can find lists of all the nominees year by year. Hiller was nominated in 2012-2013.

Of course I threw a bunch of names out there, because there were SO many names to pick from. It's not like Bishop is the greatest goalie and the perfect solution for Calgary just because of his Vezina nominations. There's a ton of goalies who pan out to be less than stellar who have been nominated.

Don't be disingenuous. He got four total votes that year. It's pretty obvious when someone isn't top 3 that trying to claim they're a "nominee" is reaching pretty far to try and force your point.

[guuar]

The way my cousin's NHL contract read was for the 2016 and 2017 year seasons. I believe that works out as 2015-2016 and 2016-2017 for the full season. My understanding is it is done in this manner as a result of the trading deadline being after January 1st. American requirements for Internal Revenue Service. I think the taxation rate is dependent upon the state of the contract.

I know Cody was wanting to sign in either Calgary, Vancouver or Edmonton as he has family in the Kelowna and Sicamous area in BC.

Not to mention everyone assumes players get greedy which is why they don't get the contract they thought they would and settle for a lesser option.

Even with Glencross it often is the agent trying to maximize the salary in order to get a higher player agent fee. Unsure if people are aware of this but player agent fees can range from 5% to 15%. Not only that but most players lose 50% of their salaries to taxes, agent fees and insurance. Player insurance to protect your current and future earnings is incredibly costly.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by guuar

Why would you consider Holtby to be a top goalie?

I'm pretty sure the 26/30 hockey writers that gave Holtby their first place Vezina vote last year might consider him a "Top Goalie"

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

Hilarious. Thanks for the pointers. It's better to have low quality posts/content and to tell me how to ignore it rather than support someone who is nudging this guy to take a different tact. I even said please.

Good work. Got it.

I didn't quote the part of the post where you said please and nudged, I quoted the part where you were discussing the poster.

And as stated in the post, it was not directed directly at you, it was using a portion of your post as an example. If you want to help another poster in that way (and we do appreciate trying to help other posters fit in in a positive way, that is a good point), doing it privately would probably be better; many people doing it in a thread is very disruptive and probably would have the opposite of the desired effect since the person would feel like they're being piled on.

Any support the mods have in terms of guiding a specific poster's voice or content would be done directly with the poster.

[btimbit]

Screw it, if there's truly demand for his rights give LA the pick it would have cost to re-sign Elliott and get this done before the draft

[AC]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Screw it, if there's truly demand for his rights give LA the pick it would have cost to re-sign Elliott and get this done before the draft

Exactly what I was thinking.

Re-signing Elliott costs an extra 3rd to STL. I'd have no problem trading that to LA to land Bishop.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by AC

Exactly what I was thinking.

Re-signing Elliott costs an extra 3rd to STL. I'd have no problem trading that to LA to land Bishop.

I've wondered how that works. What I mean is can the Flames walk away from Elliott and pinky swear not to sign him or does that pick stay in limbo until a certain time?

[guuar]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Go and check your facts guy. All it takes is a simple Google search (which you should know how to do) and you can find lists of all the nominees year by year. Hiller was nominated in 2012-2013.

Of course I threw a bunch of names out there, because there were SO many names to pick from. It's not like Bishop is the greatest goalie and the perfect solution for Calgary just because of his Vezina nominations. There's a ton of goalies who pan out to be less than stellar who have been nominated.

Then please by all means. Name the goalie you think is our right fit. There is only one goalie available that fits our need and won't cost any assets.

His name is Ben Bishop.

He is also the perfect goalie to help bring along Jon Gillies. Both are physically similar and play similarly as well.

You try to get bishop for 6 years @ 40m. You bring along as your #2 goalie starting in the 2017-2018 season.

2017-2018: 20-25 games
2018-2019: 25-30 games
2019-2020: 30-40 games
2020+: 40-50 games

St. Louis did the same thing with Elliot and Jake Allen. You bring in a guy that can play 50 games a year so you can give your future #1 the exposure and experience necessary to turn him into a legit #1 goalie.

Bishop for 6 years is ideal. By the time his contract is nearly done Gillies if everything goes as planned will be looking at signing a substantial UFA deal as well.

Like I said.

Ben Bishop 6 years 40M total. It won't be lower than 38M and won't be higher than 42M. Doesn't matter if it's Calgary, Dallas or Philly. That is going to be the number.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Go and check your facts guy. All it takes is a simple Google search (which you should know how to do) and you can find lists of all the nominees year by year. Hiller was nominated in 2012-2013.

Of course I threw a bunch of names out there, because there were SO many names to pick from. It's not like Bishop is the greatest goalie and the perfect solution for Calgary just because of his Vezina nominations. There's a ton of goalies who pan out to be less than stellar who have been nominated.

Take your own advice.

He was 9th in Vezina voting that year. Nominated means top 3, and the same goes for most of the rest of your random list of goalies that have nothing to do with what I asked for.

[Badgers Nose]

Old blow hards vs new blow hards. That's CP for you.

[yourbestfriend]

With Bishop you're looking at a smaller acquisition cost and a contract somewhere in the range of 6x6. Signing him to that kind of deal pretty much tells Gillies, Parsons and MacDonald that they're not starting for the next half decade. Management really needs to be sure 100% sure in what they have in the kids before they can sign this deal. If they feel like none of the kids will ever be ready to be a starting goalie, Bishop makes sense. More certainty with the Bishop option, as you pretty much know what you're going to get for the foreseeable future. Downside is if one of the kids pulls a Matt Murray, then you're paying your backup 6mil long term. Even if you try to unload him afterwards, I think we'll be hard pressed to find a team willing to take on an aging goalie with term and big $$.

With Fleury, upfront cost is gonna be a lot more than Bishop, but he's signed at a very reasonable 5.75M for only 2 more years. That's a perfect timeline for one of our kids to marinate some more before taking on the starting job once Fleury's contract ends. Downside is if the kids don't pan out, then we're pretty much back to square 1 without a starter.

Regardless of which option management takes, it'll send some pretty strong signals to what they think of our goalie situation going forward.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

I'm pretty sure the 26/30 hockey writers that gave Holtby their first place Vezina vote last year might consider him a "Top Goalie"

Strengthening your argument, in fact it's NHL General Managers who vote on the Vezina.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Ullr

Go and check your facts guy. All it takes is a simple Google search (which you should know how to do) and you can find lists of all the nominees year by year. Hiller was nominated in 2012-2013.

Of course I threw a bunch of names out there, because there were SO many names to pick from. It's not like Bishop is the greatest goalie and the perfect solution for Calgary just because of his Vezina nominations. There's a ton of goalies who pan out to be less than stellar who have been nominated.

One of my many pet peeves, but players don't get "nominated" for most of these trophies, they get voted on, and the top three are named as the finalists.
The voting is already known once the top three finalists are so named as finalists.

From NHL.com:

Vezina Trophy finalists unveiled
Sergei Bobrovsky of Blue Jackets, Braden Holtby of Capitals, Carey Price of Canadiens in running for award given to NHL's best goalie
NHL.com @NHL

https://www.nhl.com/news/holtby-bobr...ts/c-288937058

In regard to 2012-13, the year to which you are referring, Hiller received one second place vote. That is not a nomination.

Aside: I am surprised the winner doesn't ever get leaked.