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Old 02-27-2017, 10:38 PM   #41
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I can't wait until I can get to work and do errands via my subsidized roof-mounted solar panel.
I should get one for my golf cart
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:19 AM   #42
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You should probably re-read the article if that's what your interpretation was. They didn't say they were taking 100k cars off the road, they just said that the amount they will be reducing greenhouse gas emissions would be the equivalent of taking 100k cars off the road.
I get what they're trying to say. It's a made-up statistic based on another made-up statistic. They don't give any meaningful information, purposefully, and just throw out the 100,000 cars line to make it sound good. Is that 100,000 cars for a year, or the entire lifetime of those cars? Is that 100,000 cars that drive 15,000kms a year or 150,000kms? It's just spin.
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Old 02-28-2017, 06:37 AM   #43
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If we are going to use that as a comparison, someone needs to standardize the cars/solar panel factor. Are we talking Priuses, or F150's? So many variables...
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:13 AM   #44
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I get what they're trying to say. It's a made-up statistic based on another made-up statistic. They don't give any meaningful information, purposefully, and just throw out the 100,000 cars line to make it sound good. Is that 100,000 cars for a year, or the entire lifetime of those cars? Is that 100,000 cars that drive 15,000kms a year or 150,000kms? It's just spin.
I'm probably going to take a day off to play some video games. The reduction in my carbon foot print will instantaneously take 1,000,000 vehicles off the road (for an fraction a second).
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Old 02-28-2017, 08:17 AM   #45
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OK guys, let's keep this on topic. Many people will want to know the details when they are released later today.
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:18 AM   #46
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From one estimate, I saw that it was about 4500 for a residential installation of solar panels. A 30% rebate would get you 1K+ back, but it's a heavy cost.

That said, not everything needs to be judged based on how much it helps the poor. If businesses and wealthier home owners take advantage, it'll have a positive impact environmentally, which is really the main goal of these green initiatives (hence, "green" initiatives). For those who can afford panels, it won't result in an immediate cost savings when you factor in the cost of the panel and installation, but it has an immediate beneficial effect on the environment and your electricity bill.

Details will be interesting.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:01 AM   #47
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I'd be very interested to see the details on this. I don't quite get the snark about the carbon tax... am I misinformed or is this exactly the type of thing the carbon tax was brought in to create?
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:12 AM   #48
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The snark with the Carbon Tax is that it's been spent 10 times over.
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Old 02-28-2017, 10:42 AM   #49
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Well I guess the idea is that the costs will come down enough if 5 years so that the 30% subsidy is not needed to get mass adoption.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:10 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
From one estimate, I saw that it was about 4500 for a residential installation of solar panels. A 30% rebate would get you 1K+ back, but it's a heavy cost.

That said, not everything needs to be judged based on how much it helps the poor. If businesses and wealthier home owners take advantage, it'll have a positive impact environmentally, which is really the main goal of these green initiatives (hence, "green" initiatives). For those who can afford panels, it won't result in an immediate cost savings when you factor in the cost of the panel and installation, but it has an immediate beneficial effect on the environment and your electricity bill.

Details will be interesting.
Where did you see the 4500 dollar number? Someone posted in another thread of an actual quote they got for a 'typical two storey in Calgary, $17,000'
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:16 AM   #51
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From one estimate, I saw that it was about 4500 for a residential installation of solar panels. A 30% rebate would get you 1K+ back, but it's a heavy cost.
Any idea how many watts that produced? It's been a while since I looked, but the last price I saw was over $10,000 for something that seemed small, I think less than 2 kilowatts. I've seen panels for under $2 per watt, but there is more to a grid tied system than just the panels.

If I could get something in the 3-4 kw range installed for $4500- less a $1000 rebate- I might just do it.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:17 AM   #52
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Where did you see the 4500 dollar number? Someone posted in another thread of an actual quote they got for a 'typical two storey in Calgary, $17,000'
Could be, I can't find it now for some reason (maybe it was an American website?)

Would further re-affirm the idea that it's not an economical benefit, but rather an environmental one though.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:19 AM   #53
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I made a couple calls this morning to see if I could get the details behind the claim of taking 100,000 cars off the road. Not sure where they got this number and I'd be curious to know the math behind it - is it an annual figure, what are the assumptions used, and (as mentioned above) are they assuming F150s or Toyota Priuses. Someone is supposed to get back to me about this but I don't expect a timely reply.

Also not sure what happens if everyone gets solar panels installed and there is an excess of power (more being sold back to the grid than being consumed) - then what? Not likely to happen in reality but still curious if they've considered that
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:22 AM   #54
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Where did you see the 4500 dollar number? Someone posted in another thread of an actual quote they got for a 'typical two storey in Calgary, $17,000'
The detailed quote for my place was $17k including installation (generate 5,650 kwh in year 1)
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:25 AM   #55
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this was posted by Dion in the Alberta Politics thread:

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Douglas Cramer · Taking care of my family at Self-employed

Do the math. $36 million is a 30 percent rebate means total projected cost for the solar through this program is $120 million. One hundred and twenty million divided by the 10,000 houses projection they provide means a cost of $12,000 to install solar on your roof. Deduct the $3600 rebate and you are out of pocket $8400 to install solar on your roof.

For that $8400, you only get power about 25% of the time as statistics show that by the time you factor out nightime (dark) hours and days when it snows, rains or it's just cloudy, we only get an average of 1 out of every 4 hours where the sun is actually shining enough to generate electricity from solar. So you still have to pay for your electricity in the other 75% of the time.

Making things even worse, how many of you are like me, with an empty house from 7:30 am to 5:30 pm, the peak time for solar activity? The truth is that you will still pay for 80-90% of your electricity.

No thanks, I'll keep the $8400 in my pocket and continue to draw all of my power from the grid rather than 80-90% of it.

It's such a bad investment decision for the average house that I don't support my tax dollars going towards it. If people are so driven in their zest for solar, let them pay for it themselves. Everyone has the right to throw away their money but they shouldn't have the right to throw away mine.

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http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/lo...387/story.html
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:31 AM   #56
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What if at times our Private solar panels generate more electricity than our house needs at the time, will the Grid buy it from us by reducing our power bills by the value of the power being generated?
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:03 PM   #57
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What if at times our Private solar panels generate more electricity than our house needs at the time, will the Grid buy it from us by reducing our power bills by the value of the power being generated?
That's how it works, and the flaw in the quoted post from Dion. Yes, most of the power generated from your panels will be at times when you are not home. However that is when the peak time from the grid will be. So from a personal finance perspective, if I use 1000 kwh per month and generate 250, it doesn't matter when I generate it. I will still only pay for 750 kwh of use.

From a green perspective, by me providing solar at a time when demand is high- if enough of us do it, that may eliminate the need to fire up an extra coal furnace.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:13 PM   #58
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Is our grid really set up so you can sell your extra solar back to the grid?

I always thought that wasn't an option in Alberta.
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:13 PM   #59
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What if at times our Private solar panels generate more electricity than our house needs at the time, will the Grid buy it from us by reducing our power bills by the value of the power being generated?

Could you charge them admin and delivery fees??
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Old 02-28-2017, 12:18 PM   #60
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From a green perspective, by me providing solar at a time when demand is high- if enough of us do it, that may eliminate the need to fire up an extra coal furnace.
In most electricity markets, peak demand is in the late afternoon to mid-evening. Ontario for example:

http://www.ieso.ca/Pages/Power-Data/default.aspx

Alberta doesn't have the same pronounced curve, but looking at the historical grid data from http://ets.aeso.ca/, Alberta's peak demand is still usually in the 5-7PM range and that Alberta's demand is pretty consistent throughout the day and night.
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