[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Most of the new facilities include practice rinks, correct? I know Edmonton does (have seen it). Presumably to allow for greater flexibility for the main rink.

Yes. The new arenas in Edmonton and Detroit both have practice rinks attached.

The new arena here will almost certainly have one too.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It sure isn't now. Take a spin by there after 5:30 pm or on the weekend. Not a single person in sight.

Of course it isn't now, other than the NMC, nothing else is done yet.

Also, The same is true about the West Village .

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

His point was that outside of stampede and hockey games, there was no draw for people to go to that area.

He implied that CSEC needed that area to draw people beyond just those events.

I'm behind the Victoria Park curve.
What else, if anything, is coming that would draw traffic to the area?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

His point was that outside of stampede and hockey games, there was no draw for people to go to that area.

He implied that CSEC needed that area to draw people beyond just those events.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but I don't see why they need to draw people to the area beyond just those events.

Who is going to go to the rink when there isn't a hockey game or a concert, no matter where it is? And if they do, I don't see what the Flames are going to get out of it.

The East Village has taken forever to get off the ground, but at least it is off the ground. There are a lot of young well-heeled people living in the towers within walking distance of the proposed location. It'll be at least 20 years before the same thing can be said about the West Village, and by then, CalgaryNext would be dated and the whole conversation about a new rink will be starting again.

[Hangman]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Of course it isn't now, other than the NMC, nothing else is done yet.

Also, The same is true about the West Village .

You can buy a car in the West Village, oh wait.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Of course it isn't now, other than the NMC, nothing else is done yet.

Also, The same is true about the West Village .

The Flames likely need a plan from the City to turn that into more than residential area because it's a dead area right now, and building just a rink isn't going to change that. Unless people have restaurants, bars, shopping, etc., they go to the game and leave.

I can tell you from my friends experience, that the City made him it a living nightmare to get his business setup in that area so I'm sure the Flames are going to want assurances that it's relatively business friendly are not going to have to deal with Nimby's and other such things fighting restaurants and bars tooth and nail.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

His point was that outside of stampede and games, there was no draw for people to go to that area.

He implied that CSEC needed that area to draw people beyond just those events.

The area is by far from perfect as of now, but there's much more potential there than West Village ever could hold. You already have within walking distance a couple of casinos, some established bars/restaurants, some event/convention space, and are next door to an already existing entertainment district in 17th avenue that would most likely stretch further east. North of the site you have within walking distance Art Central, museums, an outdoor venue for events, and most importantly a new highrise district basically being build for professionals with disposable income. You're also going to have walkable access to all of Calgary's LRT lines, not just 1.

CalgaryNEXT was basically going to be a large monolith surrounded by some condos, roads/train tracks, and the river pathway. How is that any more entertaining?

Yes, the Stampede grounds is still largely a concrete wasteland, but in my eyes there's much more potential there to be had than in West Village. It may not be congealed perfectly just yet, but you're surrounded by things to do.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The area is by far from perfect as of now, but there's much more potential there than West Village ever could hold. You already have within walking distance a couple of casinos, some established bars/restaurants, some event/convention space, and are next door to an already existing entertainment district in 17th avenue that would most likely stretch further east. North of the site you have within walking distance Art Central, museums, an outdoor venue for events, and most importantly a new highrise district basically being build for professionals with disposable income. You're also going to have walkable access to all of Calgary's LRT lines, not just 1.

CalgaryNEXT was basically going to be a large monolith surrounded by some condos, roads/train tracks, and the river pathway. How is that any more entertaining?

Yes, the Stampede grounds is still largely a concrete wasteland, but in my eyes there's much more potential there to be had than in West Village. It may not be congealed perfectly just yet, but you're surrounded by things to do.

So same as now, with the rink across the street?
Not that there's anything wrong either that, I guess.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but I don't see why they need to draw people to the area beyond just those events.

Who is going to go to the rink when there isn't a hockey game or a concert, no matter where it is? And if they do, I don't see what the Flames are going to get out of it.

The East Village has taken forever to get off the ground, but at least it is off the ground. There are a lot of young well-heeled people living in the towers within walking distance of the proposed location. It'll be at least 20 years before the same thing can be said about the West Village, and by then, CalgaryNext would be dated and the whole conversation about a new rink will be starting again.

It's because the owners want to own and develop land nearby the arena. CalgaryNEXT was a proposal where the owners get everything they would want. New arena, new football stadium, and surrounding land that they could own and develop. Essentially, they would be making money every single day even if there wasn't a game going on.

With Victoria Park, surrounding land isn't as freely available. The big piece of undeveloped real estate north of 12th ave is owned by a company that does have plans for that already. Then south all of it is Stampede. The owners wouldn't be able to make money outside of game days in that area.

I could see why CSEC would really want CalgaryNEXT to work, because financially they would have so much to gain from it over Victoria Park. But it's just not realistic unless they're willing to drop down close to $1 billion for it. Then at that point, is it really worth it?

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

King on 960 says city still needs to convince them (CSEC) that Victoria Park will become an entertainment district.


Maybe a bit of a double standard? Not so sure he was able to prove that with CalgaryNEXT.

I suspect it was more of a shot at the Stampede Board and their lack of progress on Stampede Trail.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

So same as now, with the rink across the street?
Not that there's anything wrong either that, I guess.

Well that's the baseline, which is already more of an entertainment hub than West Village could ever hope to be.

Why not help move an existing one forward instead of trying to create a new one, which will probably just result in two half assed ones.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I could see why CSEC would really want CalgaryNEXT to work, because financially they would have so much to gain from it over Victoria Park. But it's just not realistic unless they're willing to drop down close to $1 billion for it. Then at that point, is it really worth it?

Ha. Well okay, I can see why they'd want free land in the city. So do I.

I didn't know/had forgotten that they expected to be gifted that whole parcel in the "West Village". I thought they were just angling for a cheap rink and football stadium and were pitching the development to the south as a sort of "if we build it they will come, and the city benefits" kind of a deal.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Very odd to not just say CalgaryNEXT is dead when it's pretty clearly dead, but whatever. Vic Park is there, a deal can be made in a few months and the building can be up for the 2020-2021 season. Now the fun of getting some designs and renderings can begin, ideally not involving cowboy hats.

[FlamesNation23]

Was there any discussion about when the flames could submit their plan, including some renderings?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by RM14

Nenshi voted to keep it alive as well.

Thats hilarious since he was the one who unilaterally announced it as dead and buried a couple weeks ago.

Putz.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

CSEC needs convincing that an area with the National Music Centre, a new arena, a developed East Village, and the library would become an entertainment district?

Really?

what does the library contribute in the way of an entertainment district?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Very odd to not just say CalgaryNEXT is dead when it's pretty clearly dead, but whatever. Vic Park is there, a deal can be made in a few months and the building can be up for the 2020-2021 season. Now the fun of getting some designs and renderings can begin, ideally not involving cowboy hats.

How do you know that a deal could be done in a few months at Victoria Park? Do we know if the Stampede is a willing participant? Has the city had any previous discussions with the Stampede about a stadium here and/or a potential land swap? Is CSEC going to want any additional concessions from the Stampede or vice versa? Were any reps from the Stampede at the council meeting today?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Table 5

The area is by far from perfect as of now, but there's much more potential there than West Village ever could hold. You already have within walking distance a couple of casinos, some established bars/restaurants, some event/convention space, and are next door to an already existing entertainment district in 17th avenue that would most likely stretch further east. North of the site you have within walking distance Art Central, museums, an outdoor venue for events, and most importantly a new highrise district basically being build for professionals with disposable income. You're also going to have walkable access to all of Calgary's LRT lines, not just 1.

CalgaryNEXT was basically going to be a large monolith surrounded by some condos, roads/train tracks, and the river pathway. How is that any more entertaining?

Yes, the Stampede grounds is still largely a concrete wasteland, but in my eyes there's much more potential there to be had than in West Village. It may not be congealed perfectly just yet, but you're surrounded by things to do.

Well this "potential" has existed down there for what....40 years now?

What's going to change now?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Was there any discussion about when the flames could submit their plan, including some renderings?

It all depends on when Ken King gets his new box of crayons.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Just want to add that the Victoria Park parcel of land is way too small for a new arena let alone an entertainment district. Also just want to add that the same problems that make the Saddledome a bad location would still exist, just moved two blocks north. Just a horrible location. Based on this location the Flames new building would not have mass transit access directly to the building and not require going for a long walk outdoors to reach the arena. The only other Canadian building with that honor? Winnipeg's MTS Centre. Now that's the building and city you want to emulate!