[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[JohnnyO]

Can't wait to see the Flames presentation to sell this idea. I wonder if they will use felts instead of crayons this time.

Also what's the over under on the number of traffic circles to be included in this development.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by sleepingmoose

The 17th Avenue extension across the LRT tracks is a horrible idea. 25th Avenue is already a disaster, why create another level crossing where a bunch of dummies are going to get hit and killed?

Sinking both 17th ave and 25th ave underground is the best option as long as it can be done under the Elbow River properly. City is already contemplating the 25th crossing plans.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...-fix-1.3637826

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

Whatever design they choose I just hope the new arena has an LRT station that's actually close. The current walk from the dome to Victoria station is a joke. I think Vancouver has a skytrain station/Costco right next to their arena, not sure about Edmonton's new arena

There's an LRT station beside the arena, but Edmonton's LRT is slow and and infrequent. They were trying to get people to take the other line and walk 3 blocks.

They have a total of 800 parking places as well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnyO

Can't wait to see the Flames presentation to sell this idea. I wonder if they will use felts instead of crayons this time.

Also what's the over under on the number of traffic circles to be included in this development.

This is not the Flames' idea to sell at present. The City is making a pitch and hoping the Flames will buy in.

[RM14]

And funding will be a major hurdle... CSEC offered $200 mm for a football/hockey complex, they likely won't offer the same for half the project. Even if they leave the $200mm cash on the table, + $250 mm user fee, that is only $450 mm..

[calgaryblood]

We all might need a plan B by the time this all over. Flames seem intent on screwing the fans.

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Here's my refreshed updated plan:



Closest precedent would be the Petco Park (San Diego) district:

I'm not so sure. I don't like the orange arena in both of your plans.

[edn88]

First - I agree with whomever proposed that CalgaryNEXT was a plan that Flames new was going to be rejected before going with a rink closer to the exisiting area.

Second - how hard would it be to place a football stadium in the Stampede grounds? What if the existing rodeo area was the football stadium (which could be converted into Rodeo for the Stampede). If it had a retractable roof, or was just plain covered, would make for a better experience for more than just football.

Third - how much risk is there for the new rink still being in the floodplain?

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by Fire

Remove the Youth Campus and put in a new Stadium.

Remove the Youth Campus that they are still in the process of building?

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by RM14

And funding will be a major hurdle... CSEC offered $200 mm for a football/hockey complex, they likely won't offer the same for half the project. Even if they leave the $200mm cash on the table, + $250 mm user fee, that is only $450 mm..

The Flames actually offered 450MM for CalgaryNEXT.

[InglewoodFan]

Mostly unrelated, but I continue to wonder why the Stampede gets into things like a "youth campus". What on earth does that have to do with their core competency - a real estate and parking company that has an exhibition once a year?

[RM14]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

The Flames actually offered 450MM for CalgaryNEXT.

???

$200 mm Cash
$250 mm User Fee
$200 mm City of Calgary
$240 mm Community Revitalization levy
$890 mm


http://www.calgarynext.com/financing-plan.php

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by RM14

And funding will be a major hurdle... CSEC offered $200 mm for a football/hockey complex, they likely won't offer the same for half the project.

I would assume that reno's to McMahon would be part of the proposal. I expect they wouldn't want to contribute that much this is true... but they'll have to keep in mind that the offer they made on the other project didn't get the yes.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by edn88

First - I agree with whomever proposed that CalgaryNEXT was a plan that Flames new was going to be rejected before going with a rink closer to the exisiting area.

I thought it seemed pretty likely, and certainly is a legitimate tactic that groups have used, but Bunk seemed pretty clear that the idea was absurd in relation to this project, and he's pretty close to the people involved even if he has since moved on.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by RM14

???

$200 mm Cash
$250 mm User Fee
$200 mm City of Calgary
$240 mm Community Revitalization levy
$890 mm


http://www.calgarynext.com/financing-plan.php

The User Fee was structured as a private loan.

[Vinny01]

I am on board with either plan to be honest. CalgaryNext is a project that I think really takes the City to the next level. Developing an important yet unused piece of land will help widen the urban footprint of the city and open up a whole new district of downtown. The cost of the project and remediation work that is required make the project a challenging one.

Option B is appealing because the Stampede location is also great and it tackles the true biggest need which is a new events centre. I am fine with retaining McMahon as that is more enjoyable football watching experience (outdoors vs indoors). I don't really care about the field house either way.

I just want a deal to be made.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by edn88

Second - how hard would it be to place a football stadium in the Stampede grounds? What if the existing rodeo area was the football stadium (which could be converted into Rodeo for the Stampede). If it had a retractable roof, or was just plain covered, would make for a better experience for more than just football.

My original picture where I proposed putting the new arena where the Big 4 is, and then putting the new football stadium where the Saddledome currently sits:


Of course move the new arena to the area Bunk shows, but that still leaves enough room to plop a new football stadium where the Saddledome is. Or elsewhere on the Stampede grounds.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If all we are getting is a new hockey arena with no plans for a new football stadium, I am very much against this.

Why? We use the football stadium ten times a year. An arena get used what? 250-320 time a year?

I love the Stampeders, and I love going to their games (have been a season ticket holder for I think 11 years), but I find too many of us let our heart do the talking an completely ignore the economic reality of building a stadium for essentially the CFL.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am on board with either plan to be honest. CalgaryNext is a project that I think really takes the City to the next level. Developing an important yet unused piece of land will help widen the urban footprint of the city and open up a whole new district of downtown. The cost of the project and remediation work that is required make the project a challenging one.

Option B is appealing because the Stampede location is also great and it tackles the true biggest need which is a new events centre. I am fine with retaining McMahon as that is more enjoyable football watching experience (outdoors vs indoors). I don't really care about the field house either way.

I just want a deal to be made.

Would it though? We're finding out over time that there wasn't actually much to the plan at all, other than cool outside renderings. Who knows how it would have worked in reality, for all we know it may have looked like a giant ugly bubble structure from the late 80's when complete.

It was a cool concept, but I don't trust the team behind it have made it modern, cutting edge and practical. Which means it was a high risk, high reward project that could have easily turned into an embarrassment.

Cutting edge/game changing concepts in the building design world need to be carried out by the absolute best in the business to actually work out as intended, no disrespect intended, but I don't think that's what was behind this project.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

It'd almost be a miss to have two ctrain stations in close but no cigar range. I'm sure we're all veterans of that odd walk from Victoria Park Station to the Saddledome and it never fails to make me chuckle what an oddity it is. Outside, inside, outside, overwalk that does nothing but create a wind tunnel.

Just some random thoughts. Getting the Greenline LRT and the new Stadium to sync is a must IMO.

The best part of that walk is the parade of Stampede Posters and walking by The Grain Academy.
What sadistic parents take their kids for an outing at the Grain Academy?