Same money with every team - just like Hayes will face
Not getting into your debate, just a point for thought.
In Schultz case the guaranteed ice time and a team that was all offense made the money in Edmonton more than anywhere. I'll bet he made 200-500k more in bonuses + set up a few mil in his second contract purely because he never had to earn a spot.
Is there somewhere that shows bonuses reached? I'd like to know what monahan hit come to think of it.
This is DEFINITELY a lot to do with money, and there are huge differences.
1) Team A's max rookie contract vs Team B's identical max rookie contract look the same on paper. The difference is how many NHL games he gets, which puts a HUGE difference of money in Hayes' pockets. No team can give him a contract that exceeds the rookie max, so on paper they will all be the same offers. However, many teams can either guarantee him ice time, or show him the likelihood of him having it.
2) The more NHL time he plays during his first contract, the likelihood of him having a larger 2nd contract will be, and the less likely it will be that it will be a two-way deal. No guarantees of course, but the numbers can drastically change.
If I am Hayes, I am thinking that staying in Chicago can potentially cost me millions. You can understand why he wants to move, and it is completely in his right, even if many don't quite agree with it and state he should show more loyalty. Should he potentially give up millions of dollars to show loyalty? Tough one to answer from the outside looking in. Easy to dislike from a Chicago fan's perspective (and other fans as well), but it becomes an easier choice when you are wearing his shoes.
I am sure he will be talking to most teams in the NHL, and any team with a weak right side organizationally will be more on his radar. Calgary and Florida both have certain advantages right away, not to mention lower taxes (if money is going to be counting his pennies), which is a huge deal when you are going to end up long-term in an organization. Any team that either guarantees him a certain number of NHL games, or shows him how likely it is for him to get it, will be on his radar. Edmonton should be there as well, no? They are trying to add size, and on the right side you have Eberle - Yakupov - potentially Hayes. Am I missing someone now? Perron and Hall on the left side. Seems like I am missing someone here.
Will be interesting to see who gets him, but I think that is what it will come down to. It is certainly nice to have a brother in Florida, some friends and past line mates in Calgary, an uncle in Pittsburgh, a cousin in Boston (and a hometown to boot), but it seems like this will really be about money in the end, and he will sign where he feels he has the best chance to make it long-term.
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I'd put him somewhere in the same range as Bill Arnold.
Personally, I'd have Arnold ahead because I like his overall 200ft game. From what I've seen, Hayes isn't as strong in his own zone as Arnold, but probably has a better offensive upside.
I'd expect them to be low in the top-10 or just outside the top-10.
No. Hayes would be above Arnold. He's a big winger who can score. Hayes is also a former 1st rounder.
This is DEFINITELY a lot to do with money, and there are huge differences.
1) Team A's max rookie contract vs Team B's identical max rookie contract look the same on paper. The difference is how many NHL games he gets, which puts a HUGE difference of money in Hayes' pockets. No team can give him a contract that exceeds the rookie max, so on paper they will all be the same offers. However, many teams can either guarantee him ice time, or show him the likelihood of him having it.
2) The more NHL time he plays during his first contract, the likelihood of him having a larger 2nd contract will be, and the less likely it will be that it will be a two-way deal. No guarantees of course, but the numbers can drastically change.
If I am Hayes, I am thinking that staying in Chicago can potentially cost me millions. You can understand why he wants to move, and it is completely in his right, even if many don't quite agree with it and state he should show more loyalty. Should he potentially give up millions of dollars to show loyalty? Tough one to answer from the outside looking in. Easy to dislike from a Chicago fan's perspective (and other fans as well), but it becomes an easier choice when you are wearing his shoes.
I am sure he will be talking to most teams in the NHL, and any team with a weak right side organizationally will be more on his radar. Calgary and Florida both have certain advantages right away, not to mention lower taxes (if money is going to be counting his pennies), which is a huge deal when you are going to end up long-term in an organization. Any team that either guarantees him a certain number of NHL games, or shows him how likely it is for him to get it, will be on his radar. Edmonton should be there as well, no? They are trying to add size, and on the right side you have Eberle - Yakupov - potentially Hayes. Am I missing someone now? Perron and Hall on the left side. Seems like I am missing someone here.
Will be interesting to see who gets him, but I think that is what it will come down to. It is certainly nice to have a brother in Florida, some friends and past line mates in Calgary, an uncle in Pittsburgh, a cousin in Boston (and a hometown to boot), but it seems like this will really be about money in the end, and he will sign where he feels he has the best chance to make it long-term.
Well written. Both Florida and Calgary have some good prospects in the pipeline. However, I feel as though Tallon in Florida has a more of a " gotta get it done sooner " approach right now. Florida has made some moves this off-season to back that. I feel that Hayes has a better shot- especially long term, here in Calgary.
I believe Schultz signing in Edmonton was 90% about
1) Getting paid
2) getting guaranteed ice time
I believe if Hayes signs in Calgary its for the same reasons. If you want to believe a big part of Hayes signing in Calgary is because he believes the future is so bright, he has to wear shades that's up to you. I won't argue the point any longer.
I believe Schultz was wearing rose colored glasses when he choose EDM. He not only saw possible ice time, but, saw the prospects on the team. He probably figured the team was destined to succeed very quick and got caught up in the hype. I wonder what he's thinkin now...
Fact. But structured in such a way that suggests you have a strong opinion about how Hayes' scoring ability compares to Arnold, who is also a "big centre who can score".
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowtown75
Hayes is also a former 1st rounder.
Fact. But not a very relevant one. Hayes was drafted in the first round four years ago. No one should care at this point about his draft position when assessing his playing abilities, since it has nothing to do with how well or poorly he plays the game today.
The following year after Hayes was drafted, the Flames selected Johnny Gaudreau in the fourth round. Should this "fact" also lead to the conclusion that Hayes is a better prospect than Gaudreau?
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Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I spoke with the Hayes' cousin down here yesterday. We talked hockey for awhile, but he honestly had no clue what was going to happen with any of the Hayes boys' futures. Whatever they're deciding, they're keeping it tightly under wraps.
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I believe Schultz signing in Edmonton was 90% about
1) Getting paid
2) getting guaranteed ice time
I believe if Hayes signs in Calgary its for the same reasons. If you want to believe a big part of Hayes signing in Calgary is because he believes the future is so bright, he has to wear shades that's up to you. I won't argue the point any longer.
I think you're probably right about his mindset being the same as Schultz's and that's why he won't end up signing in Calgary. The whole culture shift has been about hard work and earning opportunities, Treliving has said numerous times the road to Calgary is through the AHL, and I really can't see Burke and the rest of the hockey ops guaranteeing NHL ice time a guy fresh out of college like this.
I know Gaudreau and Arnold played right after they signed but that was more an incentive for them to sign right away, and get a nice little bonus for playing an NHL game. Neither guy has been guaranteed anything by management from what I've seen.
Treliving also said this is probably one of te best if not the best organizations for young players because they are going to get a shot. Also look at the RW depth and Hayes can see a huge hole. He also has the size the flames covet and his buddies both play here. I think there is still a really good chance he signs here
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Hayes only competition at RW are Poirier and Smith. Smith is at least 2-3 years away if ever, and Poirier will likely start in the AHL once his shoulder is better. Hayes could probably step right in.
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Hayes only competition at RW are Poirier and Smith. Smith is at least 2-3 years away if ever, and Poirier will likely start in the AHL once his shoulder is better. Hayes could probably step right in.
We certainly have a lot of holes to fill at RW then.. You make it sound like we have 0 RWers starting in the NHL next year.
Hayes only competition at RW are Poirier and Smith. Smith is at least 2-3 years away if ever, and Poirier will likely start in the AHL once his shoulder is better. Hayes could probably step right in.
We still have Hudler and David Jones who will be our 1/2 line RW. I don't think Hayes will immediately become our #1 RW.
