Calgary Public Transit - Discussion

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Tyler

90% of people's griping about poor infrastructure in Calgary is that planners didn't think far enough ahead and cut corners when they should have spent more money to do things right.

Perfect example here.

The transportation planners at Calgary Transit do not choose the final plan. They present numerous options and their recommended choice but the final decision lays with Council and is influenced by the Standing Policy Committee on Transportation and Transit.

Originally Posted by GGG

I disagree. Calgary and Edmonton each built an LRT system and Calgarys has always been more functional. By deferring the tunnel expense Calgary got significantly more track laid. Edmonton has 25km and Calgary has 60k

By going with quantity over quality, Calgary was able to develop a Transit City mentality for commuting. By hitting more communities Calgary is able to convince over 300k people a day to use the CTrain while Edmonton can only get just over 100k. The medium-term benefits of going along the surface of 7th outweighed the long-term benefits of going underground.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by RW99

I'm happy they are looking to move forward with the underground option for the new line. The money sucks up front, but will be a much better option for the future. And I hope they add 12th Ave back to the underground plan. Centre St past 20th Ave will be a real mess for a couple years.

Was 12th Ave ever part of the underground plan? I don't recall seeing any plans that would have the train remain underground that far.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Addick

By going with quantity over quality, Calgary was able to develop a Transit City mentality for commuting. By hitting more communities Calgary is able to convince over 300k people a day to use the CTrain while Edmonton can only get just over 100k. The medium-term benefits of going along the surface of 7th outweighed the long-term benefits of going underground.

Getting it to wide swaths of the city (comparatively, and at the time starting in the early 80s) quickly is a big part of it.

However, so too was having a densely developed downtown with a parking policy that restricts the build-able supply, as well as other relatively transit-friendly destinations/trip generators outside the downtown (NW post-secondary corridor, Stampede/Saddledome, Chinook).

[Fuzz]

Transit bingo!
http://www.thegauntlet.ca/calgary-transit-bingo/

[Sainters7]

Haha awesome

[GGG]

That's an awesome list, I love that cheery Ctrain driver. He's about 15 minutes late for me but when I sleep in he makes me feel better for being late.

The only one I disagree with is the free square. I don't think of any time I've been scared for my life on the train. They do a good job with safety

[Sainters7]

I've absolutely felt nervous on the train before. If you're only on it during rush hour I could see that, the scuzzy types are vastly outnumbered then. During non-peak times it's a much different scene on there, especially at night. I haven't really felt like that on 69th St line since we moved, but on the Somerset line when I was in Acadia it could definitely be sketchy at times.

Not blaming Calgary Transit for that, that's just life in a large urban centre. Whatcha gonna do?

[Regulator75]

Bump.

Calgary city council voted Tuesday in favour of what's seen as the best but most expensive option for the eventual new Green Line of the LRT — a $2-billion tunnel beneath Crescent Heights, the Bow River and downtown.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...iple-1.3791357

[Ozy_Flame]

Do it right the first time. Every time.

[GGG]

I think this is the right choice here. If you don't do it now there is no future option to do it.

[Lubicon]

What the reports never tell you or at least point out is the actual difference in price between the various options which is really all that matters. Yes the tunnel will cost $2B but the other options will cost $1.5B+ so really the tunnel is costing $400 million or less, not $2 billion. And yes, tunnelling is the right choice to make for a project that will be with us essentially forever more.

From the article "At an estimated $1.95 billion, the tunnel was more expensive than four other options being considered for the north-central stretch of the Green Line, which ranged from $1.5 to $1.8 billion."

[temple5]

I always preferred the option of the Ctrain coming out of the side of the hill and going on a bridge over the river and then tunneling through downtown, but thats just me, I get it, for some reason the city doesnt want to build another bridge over the Bow river (unless of course its a pedestrian only bridge).

I love the, whats another $400m argument - reminds me of my friends arguments, debt is free - who cares about debit. Other than spending other peoples money, does anyone say that in real life on a regular basis with anything that costs over $1000? Who buys anything for 25% more for functionality. People will normally pay more for it simply because of asthetics, marketing, brand name, status symbol etc. I just hope that Ccc didnt approve this option because the city has a serious NYC envy problem in Calgary.

Its to bad we dont have any good councilors on the right side of the spectrum in Calgary to provide at least a resemblance of opposition or reasonable alternative. Anyone who claims to be seem to be in the developers pocket or they are to involved with other special interest groups.

Instead of the "its only 400m more" argument. Why isnt the argument - what could we do for CT with the 400M if we didnt spend it here. How much would tunneling the red line under downtown be, could this cover half that cost?. What about re-designing some stations in the NE or Chinook to limit traffic interactions and improve system reliability. Or how about fast tracking an express bus line down 17th Ave SE to downtown (where the green line should be going instead of to the SE where it will be a boat anchor on system costs for decades to come before any meaningful redevelopment occurs).

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Regulator75

Bump.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...iple-1.3791357

Good news.

[temple5]

Is there any updated news on the train derailment in the NW?

Driver error, mechanical error?

$4M+ of city money was wiped off the books and passengers on the red line are going to have worse service than they would have had this not happened

Anyone know the cause, has a prelim report came out?

[Wormius]

Wouldn't the city have had some kind of insurance for that?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by temple5

I always preferred the option of the Ctrain coming out of the side of the hill and going on a bridge over the river and then tunneling through downtown, but thats just me, I get it, for some reason the city doesnt want to build another bridge over the Bow river (unless of course its a pedestrian only bridge).

I love the, whats another $400m argument - reminds me of my friends arguments, debt is free - who cares about debit. Other than spending other peoples money, does anyone say that in real life on a regular basis with anything that costs over $1000? Who buys anything for 25% more for functionality. People will normally pay more for it simply because of asthetics, marketing, brand name, status symbol etc. I just hope that Ccc didnt approve this option because the city has a serious NYC envy problem in Calgary.

Its to bad we dont have any good councilors on the right side of the spectrum in Calgary to provide at least a resemblance of opposition or reasonable alternative. Anyone who claims to be seem to be in the developers pocket or they are to involved with other special interest groups.

Instead of the "its only 400m more" argument. Why isnt the argument - what could we do for CT with the 400M if we didnt spend it here. How much would tunneling the red line under downtown be, could this cover half that cost?. What about re-designing some stations in the NE or Chinook to limit traffic interactions and improve system reliability. Or how about fast tracking an express bus line down 17th Ave SE to downtown (where the green line should be going instead of to the SE where it will be a boat anchor on system costs for decades to come before any meaningful redevelopment occurs).

It's not it's only 400 million more. The city over 30 years will have 630 million increase in property taxes as a result of this choice. This 400 million is being spent so that you don't recreate the problem that was the NE line.

If you are spending 4.5 billion on a project and for 10% more you get significantly more functionality it is the right decision. And the cost to do it later when it becomes necessary is likely aournd the 2 billion dollar cost of the tunnel now. So you can save 400 million now and have a 2 billion liability in the future or you can spend the 400 million now.

I'd agree that adding a 17th Ave BRT makes a lot of sense. Burying the 7th Ave line while improving the experience is quite an expensive option in terms of $ per additional capacity.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by temple5

I always preferred the option of the Ctrain coming out of the side of the hill and going on a bridge over the river and then tunneling through downtown, but thats just me, I get it, for some reason the city doesnt want to build another bridge over the Bow river (unless of course its a pedestrian only bridge).

So basically Edmonton's LRT. You can always go up there to enjoy it. Stand on the High Level bridge, look down, and wonder in amazement!

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by temple5

Is there any updated news on the train derailment in the NW?

Driver error, mechanical error?

$4M+ of city money was wiped off the books and passengers on the red line are going to have worse service than they would have had this not happened

Anyone know the cause, has a prelim report came out?

CT just had a press conference on it. Investigation shows nothing mechanically went wrong, the driver consciously drove forward. Preliminary interview with driver indicates that they don't remember what happened, but they haven't conducted a detailed interview yet. Driver is out of hospital.

I'm really wondering if we will ever get a satisfactory explanation of what went on if the driver doesn't remember.

[Dentoman]

Almost sounds like the driver forgot what station they were at. Could that be possible?

[Senator Clay Davis]

So some guy on my train is rocking the dope fiend lean. Cannot believe he hasn't fallen over.