YLYL Thread Sexism Discussion (split from Gay Teen thread).

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

To respond to the bolded part first: Why the hell not? The whole point is that you can have a thread of your own any time you want and nobody does it. You already have the freedom and choose not to exercise it. I don't get what you're trying to accomplish other than forcing other people to view what you consider attractive to prove a point of some sort. The thread already exists, and has had for a while, without any complaints until recently. There have also been hot guy threads as Minnie illustrated earlier, which might have been worse than the hot girls thread since the hotties were being drafted and ranked according to their looks.



If it feels like I'm being "dickish" it's because I feel like we're trying harder and harder to appease a vocal minority (a very small one at that) at the expense of what the community at large wants. I'm hoping the poll will put the debate about what to do at rest.



That's it, I'm out for the night. You can all decide what to do from this point. I've said my piece.

You have a choice to be abrasive and condescending about it, or not. You chose to be abrasive and condescending. Regardless of what problem you have with vocal minorities, you are still capable of acting civil about it.

Good threads need either A) a people who contribute a lot or B) a lot of contributors. The current thread has that, and this scenario would only improve that while making the thread a little less of a glaring eyesore to some people. It's not that it's "what you like vs what I like", it's that it's "what I like AND NOTHING ELSE". It's a chance for both men and women to enjoy it instead of one gender pretty much having to avoid that thread all the time.

I guess what I'm asking, is why there would need to be a "Hot Women" thread and a "Hot Guy" thread when they could just be one thread? Give me a good reason why that would be a bad thing.

[photon]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

Lol wut. Within the first two pages:

You said "Stop trying to shame men for being turned on by women." Nothing in Peanuts post you quoted says anything about shaming men for being turned on by women. You're putting your own meaning into it.

Or your conflating/confusing objectification with "being turned on by". The definition of objectification is right there in what you quoted though.

Same with Itse's post, nothing in it talks about just being turn on by, it's objectification and sexualization.

If you don't understand the difference (and it appears you don't) then that's a good place to start researching if you want to find out.

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

Again. Total self righteousness. From the same poster (peanut) who was busted in objectifying a man.

I disagree, but either way self righteousness does not invalidate a position, to think so is a logical fallacy. And she herself said "I don't think there is anything wrong with appreciating an attractive man or woman." No one in this thread has said so.

So again no one has said what you claim.

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

People are objectified everyday. Women can't get enough of my hair and tell me I have an amazing ass. Who cares? I'm not gonna whine about it. You guys are acting like only dudes do this. Hahahhaha

No one claimed only men do it. No one said it doesn't happen or even shouldn't ever happen. If that's what you think, you are missing the point of the thread completely.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

I guess what I'm asking, is why there would need to be a "Hot Women" thread and a "Hot Guy" thread when they could just be one thread? Give me a good reason why that would be a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing, just doesn't make a lot of sense. The vast majority of people who would go to either, don't have an interest in the other.
It's like saying a thread about rap music should also be inclusive of country music.

The forum as a whole can be more inclusive, without the specific thread being inclusive to the point beyond logic.
Adding male images to that thread will do nothing to change some the of the sexist comments throughout the forums which is really the issue at hand.
If you think that's the solution, I think you're really missing the point.

[maverickstruth]

Running out the door, but as I've been following this thread all day, I felt like I should at least say something - as one of the women who follow the site religiously, but rarely participate.

For me, the post that summarizes things the best was EasternGirl's (http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=109) - I completely resonate with this section in particular:

As for the thread, I looked in the thread when it was first started out of curiosity and that curiosity quickly turned to disgust and discomfort so I no longer look in it. It's easy to just avoid the thread. The problem is that those pictures/comments don't stay in that thread. They are in a lot of different threads that have nothing to do with sexuality or women that end up just being pics or comments about women. I don't think men realize how uncomfortable it can be for women and how difficult it is to just "not look at it." It's everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere.

In the end, I voted for 'shut it down' - not because every picture in the thread was 'bad' or a problem, but because on the whole, it sets a tone and a sends a message that this sort of thing (by which I mean, the objectification of women in general) is okay. Maybe more heavy moderation would help; I don't know. I know that the existing rules already specify that content 'tasteful' images of men/women may be posted in threads designated for such - but I'm not sure that those pictures are all tasteful. Much of the commentary certainly is not.

Finally, I say all of this this not only as a woman, but as one who is in a same-sex relationship. Trust me, I don't mind looking at an attractive woman; that's not the issue at all. The problem is as many of the other gals have stated far so much more eloquently than I - it would be one thing if all it were was tasteful images restricted to one thread. But it's not; the crass sentiments in particular - which aren't just limited to that thread - can make it feel incredibly unwelcoming.

[MissTeeks]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

To respond to the bolded part first: Why the hell not? The whole point is that you can have a thread of your own any time you want and nobody does it. You already have the freedom and choose not to exercise it. I don't get what you're trying to accomplish other than forcing other people to view what you consider attractive to prove a point of some sort. The thread already exists, and has had for a while, without any complaints until recently. There have also been hot guy threads as Minnie illustrated earlier, which might have been worse than the hot girls thread since the hotties were being drafted and ranked according to their looks.



If it feels like I'm being "dickish" it's because I feel like we're trying harder and harder to appease a vocal minority (a very small one at that) at the expense of what the community at large wants. I'm hoping the poll will put the debate about what to do at rest.



That's it, I'm out for the night. You can all decide what to do from this point. I've said my piece.

Oh, we didn't start the draft idea. There was a girls one first. So we figured it was only fair to have our own. There were actually two girl ones:

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=57980

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=73919

[photon]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I kicked this debacle off and I obviously should have chosen my words much more carefully.

I did ask the question though, so I take blame too, and it's something that I've been thinking about for a while so it just seemed like a convenient segue to ask.

Originally Posted by Peanut

I thought that objectification was included as part of the definition of misogyny, but it seems that is arguable. So, sexism, not misogyny.

I am guilty of that as well, I was using the two terms almost interchangeably.

Originally Posted by Peanut

It's noticeable for me.

That's why we really value all the input here. Despite trying to be more observant and thoughtful, probably 80% of still just slips by me because I'm steeped in it.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by photon

If that's what you think, you are missing the point of the thread completely.

I think that's the biggest problem with both this thread and the other... Even if they do see it, they don't care enough to change their attitude. Boys will be boys and all that jazz.

4/10. Will not post.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

It's not a bad thing, just doesn't make a lot of sense. The vast majority of people who would go to either, don't have an interest in the other.

It's like saying a thread about rap music should also be inclusive of country music.



The forum as a whole can be more inclusive, without the specific thread being inclusive to the point beyond logic.

Adding male images to that thread will do nothing to change some the of the sexist comments throughout the forums which is really the issue at hand.

If you think that's the solution, I think you're really missing the point.

I'm not missing the point at all.

It's about eliminating the "boys club" atmosphere.

If women are actively participating in that thread, it takes away from the atmosphere of a college dorm with a bunch of guys just scoping babes. It would (I think) naturally become more inclusive, and those who make sexist comments may think twice, or find less to enjoy about the thread entirely.

While I agree it won't change the sexist comments throughout the forum, that may be what's "really at hand" but that isn't what I was giving a solution for, which I clearly stated. It's about you wanting to keep that thread , and in what way they can be obtained because (as it is currently) most responders seem to think it shouldn't remain the status quo. Is my solution for that thread the right one? Maybe not. But it's better than how it is now.

If you think my solution was "add guy pics = sexism gone" then clearly you're missing a bit yourself.

[photon]

I haven't voted yet, but even when some guys were being posted in the thread my sentiment was along the lines of "Post more, if it drives away those that can't handle it that's just a positive side effect."

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Adding male images to that thread will do nothing to change some the of the sexist comments throughout the forums which is really the issue at hand.
If you think that's the solution, I think you're really missing the point.

It certainly wouldn't solve anything, but the schadenfreude would be hilarious.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by photon

.

What started this thread was Peanut saying that the YLYL thread was misogynistic. The YLYL thread is a thread with good looking women.

Do you think looking at good looking women is misogynistic?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

What started this thread was Peanut saying that the YLYL thread was misogynistic. The YLYL thread is a thread with good looking women.

Do you think looking at good looking women is misogynistic? A simple yes or no is fine, I don't need the self righteous nonsense.

You're oversimplifying it. If it was just pictures that existed in a bubble without comment, it would be generally pretty harmless imo, though there are a lot of Reddit-style ephebophiles on this forum it seems.

Brb scrubbing my browser history.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

What started this thread was Peanut saying that the YLYL thread was misogynistic. The YLYL thread is a thread with good looking women.



Do you think looking at good looking women is misogynistic? A simple yes or no is fine, I don't need the self righteous nonsense.

The thread is a LOT more than that. Stop being obtuse.

[ExiledFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

You're oversimplifying it. If it was just pictures that existed in a bubble without comment, it would be generally pretty harmless imo, though there are a lot of Reddit-style ephebophiles on this forum it seems.

Brb scrubbing my browser history.

Well we can all agree that just photos of hotties without the drivel is perfectly fine.

Guys, from now on, no comments, only photos in the YLYL thread. Keep the mindless self indulgence to this thread.

[PsYcNeT]

I've said this before, notably in my F&ck-Reddit thread:

I don't know about you, but I could not care less what random dudes on the internet get boners to.

[Itse]

Thank god this forum has an ignore option.

[photon]

Originally Posted by ExiledFlamesFan

What started this thread was Peanut saying that the YLYL thread was misogynistic. The YLYL thread is a thread with good looking women.

Do you think looking at good looking women is misogynistic?

No, and neither does Peanut. You are misrepresenting her position; her other posts completely contradict what you are implying here. You have to respond to what someone is saying, not an oversimplified incorrect version in order for your response to be valid.

[Itse]

Damn it, now I'll never find out if ExiledFlamesFan thanked my message sarcastically, genuinely with a good sense of humour, or without realizing who I was putting on ignore.

(Sorry EFF, but come on, it's funny that you thanked that )

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

The thread is a LOT more than that. Stop being obtuse.

And that is the issue.

I used to open that thread once a month or so, and there is at least 1 comment every couple of pages that was very cringe worthy. And I can see how it is offensive. And the non-professional/selfie/some dudes teenage GF pictures do border on the "Should I really be looking at this on my computer? The cyberpolice might kick down my door, and serve up consequences that will never be duplicated again."

I voted for keep the thread, but tighten the restrictions option. If they are FHM/Maxim style, commercial glamour shoot photos, I can't see the problem. But the homeade stuff is just so damn sketchy. If dudes want to look at that, there is 4Chan for you.

[undercoverbrother]

Thanks for adding the forth choice.