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Old 07-17-2014, 10:11 AM   #21
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I'm guessing we'll see aircraft start filing around Ukraine airspace now.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:12 AM   #22
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Flight Plan

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/M...000Z/EHAM/WMKK


Last known location of plane

http://f.cl.ly/items/0d1p01171Y3n3d2....png_large.png
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:15 AM   #23
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I assume there's a reason why it cuts through Ukraine instead of a straight line.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:16 AM   #24
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I assume there's a reason why it cuts through Ukraine instead of a straight line.
Curve of the earth I'm pretty sure.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:17 AM   #25
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Well, if someone shoots down their plane with a SAM, that's sort of out of their control.
I'd like to see Customer Service rectify that complaint!
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:18 AM   #26
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A crash would have been one thing, but this going to make a messy situation even more precarious. Not to be overlooked that this was a KLM codeshare from Amsterdam, so the Dutch, and therefore Europe, are going to be pretty pissed. Not good at all.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:19 AM   #27
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It's thought that the plane was shot down by a BUK surface-to-air missile.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:19 AM   #28
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I'd like to see Customer Service rectify that complaint!
waive baggage fees
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:21 AM   #29
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I can't imagine how terrifying it would have been for the passengers.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:23 AM   #30
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I can't imagine how terrifying it would have been for the passengers.
Hopefully it wasn't and they just "blew up".
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:24 AM   #31
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The flight path of the plane has me worried. My cousin is flying back to Malaysia from Amsterdam today.

I am at a lost for words. 2 planes in a year.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:24 AM   #32
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I've got a very unpleasent feeling about this. And I assume the aftermath could take an ugly turn.

This is not good.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:24 AM   #33
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If it was something like the Buk missile then that points directly to Russian involvement with the separatists, that's a serious piece of anti-air hardware.

You can usually accept that a separatist group can buy man portable missiles off of the international weapons black market, but this is a very advanced system that needs fairly highly trained operators to not only operate it, but reload it.

That usually points to nation state involvement as the operators were either trained by Russians or were Russian advisers.

Usually you see Rebel groups using missiles like the Igla, or the Strela 2 which are cheap, plentiful and easy to use. or some of the older self propelled SAM vehicles that don't have even half of that range.

We are talking about probably a self propelled portable air defense system and that screams nation state involvement.

Now not to cloud the issue, but the Ukraine is one of many operators of the Buk system, there's a possibility that one of their systems took a walk so to speak.

But if the UN and NATO weren't involved in this before, they're about to be pulled into it t$ts first.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:27 AM   #34
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If it was something like the Buk missile then that points directly to Russian involvement with the separatists, that's a serious piece of anti-air hardware.

You can usually accept that a separatist group can buy man portable missiles off of the international weapons black market, but this is a very advanced system that needs fairly highly trained operators to not only operate it, but reload it.

That usually points to nation state involvement as the operators were either trained by Russians or were Russian advisers.

Usually you see Rebel groups using missiles like the Igla, or the Strela 2 which are cheap, plentiful and easy to use. or some of the older self propelled SAM vehicles that don't have even half of that range.

We are talking about probably a self propelled portable air defense system and that screams nation state involvement.

Now not to cloud the issue, but the Ukraine is one of many operators of the Buk system, there's a possibility that one of their systems took a walk so to speak.

But if the UN and NATO weren't involved in this before, they're about to be pulled into it t$ts first.
Ukraine does have them too ... but obviously this fits Russia's MO.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:29 AM   #35
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This is why all civilians planes should stay clear of a war zone as the possibility of a mistake increases
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:30 AM   #36
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Hopefully it wasn't and they just "blew up".
Not really how those missiles work. sorry to be grim, they usually don't actually hit the aircraft and explode. They use a proximity fuse that explodes a set distance behind and aircraft and send out a wide expanding cloud of penetrative fragments, they're designed to create catastrophic damage in as wide an area as possible.

Those poor people.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:32 AM   #37
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Ukraine does have them too ... but obviously this fits Russia's MO.
Agreed however the Ukraine Army is rife with corruption, and it wouldn't take much for one of their Buks to vanish out of the inventory for a price.

We won't know unless they can find a missile identifier number in the wreckage and find out whose inventory the rocket itself came from.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:32 AM   #38
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@jameswneal: @MillerMENA @Interpreter_Mag CNN commentator noted US (& NATO) have a lot of eyes on that area. Imagine sat. footage being reviewed now.

@statedeptspox: On reports of tragic Malaysian plane crash: at this time US do not have any confirmation of cause, individuals on plane or any addl details

@MillerMENA: #BREAKING: Confirmation That Advanced BUK Anti-Aircraft Missile Spotted In Eastern Ukraine http://t.co/9pxlU6kyVm
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:33 AM   #39
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This is why all civilians planes should stay clear of a war zone as the possibility of a mistake increases
They probably thought they were safe at nearly 40,000 feet.

But yeah I agree with insurgents getting better and better weapons, its not safe anymore.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:33 AM   #40
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For those that have not seen the video of the crash site.

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