ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[CaptainCrunch]

ah, the benefit of hindsight I guess, I didn't die yesterday, but I could die tomorrow right?

[Free Ben Hur!]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It takes a brave man to advocate for another to go and get killed.

Dick? Dick Cheney? Is that you?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

If there was a time machine and I could go back to any day in history, the day I would choose would be July 23, 2014. This is pretty much the safest the world has ever been.

July 23rd, 2014 somewhere in Canada? Sure.

Being transplanted at pretty much any point in history into the Middle East has you in the middle of a warzone regardless.

Personally take me to Bethel, New York, Aug 15, 1969.

[Free Ben Hur!]

Originally Posted by MattyC

July 23rd, 2014 somewhere in Canada? Sure.

Being transplanted at pretty much any point in history into the Middle East has you in the middle of a warzone regardless.

Personally take me to Bethel, New York, Aug 15, 1969.

Yep that'd do if a little bit on the muddy side. Me, I'd pick June 16, 67 in Monterey, CA. Or anywhere in Italy during the Renaissance. That seems like a pretty good time to be alive.

[Nyah]

I'd go to the future, say 200 years from now, steal the idea and process for peace in the Middle East (if it's even figured out by then), come back and collect my Nobel Prize

[Coach]

I wonder how many of the fighters (on either side) actually know/remember what they are fighting about.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by polak

Oh give me a break.

Guess citizens who haven't served have zero right to say which causes they do or don't support their government dedicating troops to? Next time the US tries to drag us into an Iraq-like war we should all just shut up hey? We're not going over there so what say do we have?

Jesus.

You can have all the opinions you want, just like I can have all the opinions I want.

I am also free to voice my opinion of your opinion.

Especially with your not spread thin comment. It is uninformed and wrong.

The military, specifically the army is tired, to say the least.

[polak]

All I said was that I'd be in support of Canadian intervention in this situation. Don't think it's that crazy of an opinion.

If they are spread thin or "tired" then fine. I was wrong.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I wonder how many of the fighters (on either side) actually know/remember what they are fighting about.

They're crusaders I'm pretty sure that they're the committed to the cause.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

They're crusaders I'm pretty sure that they're the committed to the cause.

Yeah fair enough.

My point I guess would be, with these types of conflicts going back 100s and 1000s of years, is there really anyone on either side that wants a resolution that doesn't include the complete annihilation of the other? And if not, how can something like this actually be solved?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

For the longest time the Obama administration's chorus for any negative outcome was "It's Bush's fault!". You would think they might be responsible for something after being in office for nearly 7 years.

Could it be because most negative outcomes have been Bush's fault, including the widely-panned decision to remove all the US support troops?

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

ah, the benefit of hindsight I guess, I didn't die yesterday, but I could die tomorrow right?

I don't get it?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Could it be because most negative outcomes have been Bush's fault, including the widely-panned decision to remove all the US support troops?

Exactly. As far as Iraq goes, the camel's head was already in the tent before Obama took office. There isn't anything that he could have changed at that point.

The state Iraq is in now was predictable before the invasion and occupation.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Yeah fair enough.

My point I guess would be, with these types of conflicts going back 100s and 1000s of years, is there really anyone on either side that wants a resolution that doesn't include the complete annihilation of the other? And if not, how can something like this actually be solved?

I'm pretty sure because of the type of organization ISIS is and the type of leaders that they have, they're only taking on the most committed fundamentalists to fight for their cause.

I'm sure that the poor #######s from other countries that go over there to fight for Jihad are heavily indoctrinated by what passes for religious leaders in that group.

[Wastedyouth]

I would just caution some restraint on views of religion and sects based upon western and European media.

The stories you get and the viewpoint and beliefs of many of the people and cultures you guys are talking about are often heavily biased or outright lies being spread by either A. Sensationalist media or B. Idiots.

The advent of the Internet has actually increased the rumors and malicious lies spread about non-Christian societies more than it has spread understanding.


Here's a story I know first hand about the well regarded BBC world news from the last month or so.

A paramedic I work with and I watched a story on BbC news about the ongoing Iraqi conflict, the story was based around what was happening in Kirkuk. BBC was spreading lies about death tolls and battles happeneing there, killings, etc. we knew for a fact that those stories were not completely true as we work with more than a few people who currently live in Kirkuk.

The paramedic emailed Bbc and commented to them that they needed to get their facts straight. BBC responded by asking if he would do an interview because they didn't have a single reliable source in Kirkuk at the time. The paramedic said he would not, but he would continue to spread the word that BBC was clueless to what was actually going on.

This is one of the biggest news outlets in the world spreading stories about things they had heard second hand.


This isn't the first time this has happened from my experience in this region. Again, don't believe everything you hear in western or European media as they claim to be unbiased but they for darn sure have an agenda.

[Wastedyouth]

Ps. I am the whitest non- religious person you will ever meet. But I work and talk to people in Iraq everyday.

I am not saying there is nothing going on or there are not atrocities occurring, I just want to spread a tolerant viewpoint on Muslims of all types. Because they get an incredibly horrible rap in our culture and more often then not their explanations about why they do many things in their cultures make sense, if you just take 5 minutes to ask them about it.

[polak]

Well you said it yourself, they did admit to not having a reliable source in the area. They're probably being fed incorrect information too.

I personally trust the BBC more than any other news source.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Ps. I am the whitest non- religious person you will ever meet. But I work and talk to people in Iraq everyday.

I am not saying there is nothing going on or there are not atrocities occurring, I just want to spread a tolerant viewpoint on Muslims of all types. Because they get an incredibly horrible rap in our culture and more often then not their explanations about why they do many things in their cultures make sense, if you just take 5 minutes to ask them about it.

And I respect that, but ISIS represents the leading edge of the ugliness of the radicals out there. They even proudly post videos on the internet of mass executions,

these are not proper Muslims, they are driven by anger and xenophobic hatred, and they are duped and deceived by their leaders that they are doing good acts and being rewarded or are going to be rewarded.

they are equivalent to Ghengis Khan's hordes who basically killed and raped and pillaged across the lands.

But to me they don't represent Islam in any sense.

They are a group of angry, hostile monsters who somehow lost their humanity and they are broken people who admire and listen to the wrong people.

Groups like ISIS attract the losers and psychopaths and thrill killers in the world who couldn't get respect in any normal way so they strive to get it from the barrel of a gun or the edge of a knife or a sword. These are people who have a dim view of human life, and no sense of honor in any way.

Too commonly people lump these monsters in with their arguments against Islam, in the same way that they lump the crazy fundamentalist Christians in with the run of the mill ordinary Christians.

They believe that everyone should believe what they believe and do it because they're way is better, and they do it through force and brutality and intimidation.

They are monsters who need to be culled from the planet.

[jofillips]

ok so the BBC isn't perfect, can you really name a better source of world news out there? (ok!! beyond reuters - who work together with the BBC)

IMO, ISIS + Boko Harem need to be annihialated quickly and shown that these states can't be allowed to exist.

[Shnabdabber]

Totally agree they need to be stopped, hell they were booted from Al Qaeda for being TOO extreme. They have been raising hell all over the horn of Africa, some reports are that they have moved into Gaza and taken over some of Hamas cells. They are a threat to both Israel and Egypt.

What I'd like to know is how are they so well funded/outfitted? Obviously they have scooped up some of Iraq's goodies given to them from the US, but they didn't mow down a third of Iraq with RPK's and AK's alone.