ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[Azure]

Well Bush started the whole mess, but Obama and his support for JSOC and their rise into a powerful organization certainly didn't help fix any of the problems the Middle East has. Probably made them worst.

The drone attacks too.

Both Presidents share responsibility.

[4X4]

Aaaaand here we go again.


Thanks for the initial thread, WastedYouth. RIP, good thread before y'all had to turn it into Obama and politics.

[Flash Walken]

I hope they don't get their hands on Iraqs WMDs...

[RougeUnderoos]

This group is claiming/bragging on Twitter (and apparently including gruesome pictures) about executing 1,700 government soldiers. The claim hasn't been verified and the government is skeptical - there wasn't an uptick in funerals in the area, apparently. A Humans Rights Watch worker is not convinced that the photos are authentic, but suspects that this is a ploy to enflame their enemies and widen the conflict.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/wo...q.html?hp&_r=0

Okay, so this is what they are dealing with... a group that either A) lined up 1,700 people and executed them or B) a group that didn't do that but wants everyone to believe they did to get more people in on the killing.

How do you deal with this kind of lunacy?

Further to that, where are the drone strikes? Everyone pretty much shrugs their shoulders when a missile takes out a wedding party on the side of an Afghanistan mountain, but these pricks are roaring down the highway in convoys killing people and routing an army that America spent a hell of a lot of money and lives setting up... They seem ripe for the shooting.

[Azure]

Not sure why they're not being targeted. Can't go wrong at this point. The US can easily hold air dominance.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Azure

Both Presidents share responsibility.

Well, let's just all agree it's America's fault.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by jammies

Well, let's just all agree it's America's fault.

Palau was involved in the coalition of the willing that invaded. I blame them

[Wastedyouth]

I have a real tough time believing that they've killed 1700 people. It doesn't jive with the stories I am hearing over here.

I have watched western news and the news over here and there is a major bias/storyline that western media seems to be propagating that doesnt seem to be supported by the people who have been in or have been in contact with, people affected by this conflict.

[Daradon]

Love the updates WastedYouth. Remember to stay safe though!

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I hope they don't get their hands on Iraqs WMDs...

well chemical weapons that Saddam used on his own people were proven to be in Iraq.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I have a real tough time believing that they've killed 1700 people. It doesn't jive with the stories I am hearing over here.

I have watched western news and the news over here and there is a major bias/storyline that western media seems to be propagating that doesnt seem to be supported by the people who have been in or have been in contact with, people affected by this conflict.

Duh, western pro christian anti muslim news trying to portray some islamic people as bad? say it aint so

[PIMking]

this whole thing to me has a huge resemblance of Vietnam. I don't believe we should do anything about it either simply because they've had problems in that area for ages and let them do it to each other and not us.

Many in the press here are still mad going against our own word and negotiated with terrorists to get back a deserter for some real bad terrorist. So these idiots are trying to tie this crap with ISIS iraq with all of that.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

well chemical weapons that Saddam used on his own people were proven to be in Iraq.

In the nineties...

[jofillips]

keep it on thread pleeeease,the invasion was over 10 years ago...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jofillips

keep it on thread pleeeease,the invasion was over 10 years ago...

That isn't very long ago. Any time a country is invaded, there are always long term repercussions that need to be considered. How anyone can't see that the events right now are directly connected to the invasion, is amazing to me. Heck, Europe had conflicts in the 1990s that were directly related to events and occupations that happened just after World War 1.

[jofillips]

so by that reasoning you're suggesting that the power make-up in iraq didnt change enormously after the US invasion?
I have a real hard time working out whats currently happening in iraq/kurdistan, but i do know these are groups that had very little to no power under saddam.

Very fluid yet under-reported situation going on there that i want to learn more about. Boy oh boy are we gonna be reading about idiots/militants from our neck of the woods fighting there and (unfortunatley) coming home.

I seriously hope the CIA/MI6 and Canadian intelligence is grilling any returnees from there....

[CaptainCrunch]

At this point, there's not much that can be done militarily by the west, They've moved a partial carrier battle group into the area in case they declare a no fly zone or decide to support the Iraqi troops with air power.

The whole thing is a complete tar baby for the West.

The Iraqi security forces are poorly trained and has low morale, they might fight, but I have my doubts that they'll fight hard. for the most part, they'll fold in the face of a determined enemy. the last thing that the West needs to do is put boots on the ground.

Even Iran is starting to worry about this situation, because the insurgency is going to spill into their borders as well.

The middle east just seems to be crazy town, maybe its the heat, or maybe its that these religious nutters have a fairly lose moral code when it comes to seizing power and killing.

It will never be solved.

[jofillips]

im gonna watch Turkey closely (huge army btw) - this is all happening on their southern border. If they're a part of NATO does it still mean they can do what they want??

Now i'd be suprised if they moved into northern iraq cos in general Kurds hate the Turk, but ISIS seems to be creating a 'crescent' of territory across Syria and Iraq.

Heck, im ignoring the other countries in the area with huge forces (Saudi etc) but i have no idea how they're seeing it....

[CaptainCrunch]

Turkey has a lot of problems with its Kurdish population, but the most they will do is enforce their border. They can do offensive operations without NATO permission, however the scetchy part is that under the NATO rules and attack on a NATO ally is an attack on NATO itself, so if Turkey gets attacked is NATO obligated to help out?

the Saudi's won't do anything, I think there's a lot of sympathy in the Saudi government and intelligence services for ISIS.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by jofillips

so by that reasoning you're suggesting that the power make-up in iraq didnt change enormously after the US invasion?
.

It definitely changed. It's more of a power vacuum now. With no history of pluralism or democracy in what is a multi-ethnic and religious state, building a stable balance of power over such a short period would have been very hard (probably impossible).

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At this point, there's not much that can be done militarily by the west, They've moved a partial carrier battle group into the area in case they declare a no fly zone or decide to support the Iraqi troops with air power.

The whole thing is a complete tar baby for the West.

The Iraqi security forces are poorly trained and has low morale, they might fight, but I have my doubts that they'll fight hard. for the most part, they'll fold in the face of a determined enemy. the last thing that the West needs to do is put boots on the ground.

Even Iran is starting to worry about this situation, because the insurgency is going to spill into their borders as well.

The middle east just seems to be crazy town, maybe its the heat, or maybe its that these religious nutters have a fairly lose moral code when it comes to seizing power and killing.

It will never be solved.

I think this has already been the case. ISIS captured a bunch of Iraqi soldiers over the weekend that had hastily put on civilian clothes over top of their uniforms in order to disguise themselves. Most of them are probably there for a pay cheque, but have no real interest in fighting.

The West will end up helping to install another "friendly dictator" and the cycle will repeat itself.