[Trade] Flames acquire Mike Smith (25% retained) for Chad Johnson, Brandon Hickey, & cond 3rd

[TheOnlyBilko]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

There is almost no chance Tyler Parsons is going to bust. You really need to do more homework on him if you think that is possible.

There was no chance Brent Krahn would bust either, right? No way Justin Pogge busts either, right?? What about Jaime Storr? Chet Pickard will be a star too!!!! Brian Finley will be an all star and let's not forget Rick Dipetro is gonna be a HOFer!!!

To say there is "almost no chance" that a 19 year old goalie fresh outta the CHL will not bust is down right laughable. I hope he succeeds but history shows us over and overy and over there is a better chance of him busting then becoming a star/succeeding

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

This. Treliving's worst moves have not been monumental failures. His best moves have been very positive.

Not to make this a referendum on Treliving but it's more even than that, IMO. The goaltending has been a fail and this move far from settles that concern. Only time will tell but the GM has given up a lot of assets for temporary solutions so far.

[Wolfman]

The cost is minimal. For one, it sounded llike Hickey wasn't going to sign after returning for his final year at BU. Two, Hickey is a prospect, that is it right now. No guarantee he will even make the NHL at this point. Smith is a proven #1 NHL goalie and has been for years on a terrible hockey team and has put up good numbers. I thought about this for hours. I wasn't a fan of giving up Hickey but we all know he's a prospect and has a lot to prove still. I believe Smith puts the team in a place that can do some damage.

[djsFlames]

I could see him embracing his inner Luongo or Thomas and making hay the next couple years behind a much better team and in his home country. Hopefully he's going to be energized by the move. And oh lord please, a good start would sure be welcomed..

I like that he has a winning record agains every pacific team not named calgary. We stunk it up against the division last season if not for which we would've been battling for home ice easily. Smith should at the very least help with that.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

There was no chance Brent Krahn would bust either, right? No way Justin Pogge busts either, right?? What about Jaime Storr? Chet Pickard will be a star too!!!! Brian Finley will be an all star and let's not forget Rick Dipetro is gonna be a HOFer!!!

To say there is "almost no chance" that a 19 year old goalie fresh outta the CHL will not bust is down right laughable. I hope he succeeds but history shows us over and overy and over there is a better chance of him busting then becoming a star/succeeding

I groaned as soon as the Flames selected Krahn and so did most other Flame fans. Go back and look at my posts on any goalie prospects and you will see me say the same thing you are. I am telling you I have watched this kid a lot and I think he could already start in the NHL but would have some flaws like Price did when he first came in. There are some junior scouts that already believe he is on par with John Quick skill wise. There are lots of junior goalies that you watch and you think that they might have a chance to be a good starting goalie, there are a very few that you just know. Kind of like when you see a Crosby or McDavid for forwards coming up. Parsons is that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

I complained about the trade, I don't and haven't resorted to personal attacks of other members because they don't agree with me. "I'm embarrassing myself?" Please. ""Grow up, friend" Why? Because I don't like the trade and I think we are gonna have a bad season? It's my opinion and Because you're against my personal opinion, I should "grow up?" Maybe you should take your own advice and not resort to personal attacks?

It wasn't about the fact you didn't like the trade, it was more about the way your post read, "I'm just not impressed in the slightest. Everyone on twitter is laughing at us." It struck me as a silly and immature comment. Like who cares what anyone on twitter thinks? And who knows who you have on your twitter? Why would anybody care what a bunch of casual hockey fans thinks about a hockey deal? We can't assume randoms from your twitter are knowledge hockey fans now can we?

Sorry I guess I shouldn't have started it. You're right, I was being immature in my post, my wording was poor. My apologies friend, perhaps I misunderstood you. I hope your predictions of doom and gloom do not come true. Enjoy your fandom. No one can be certain about whether Mike Smith will do well or not, none of us can see the future. Some people are saying Mike Smith is a bad goalie. I am saying Mike Smith was a good goalie on a bad team. We all have our different realities we believe in. Likely nothing anyone says will change your mind about Smith until we see Smith play. The initial clash between the Smith optimists and the Smith pessimists was inevitable and now we must wait the long offseason to see if Treliving's gamble pays off.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

This is simply an absurd post. Halak stole consecutive playoff series from the President's Trophy winning team Capitals and then the defending champion Penguins. He nearly knocked off Holtby and the Caps and in 2015, ultimately losing a nailbiter to an amazing unforgettable goal by Kuznetsov. He was the only reason Team Europe was in the final at the world cup, and nearly beat Canada singlehandedly if not for the fact 5hat Canada was a superteam of epic proportions and Europe was Halak, Kopitar, Hossa, and a bunch of nobodies.. All that is on top of a perennially higher SV% than Smith.

Your size bias is the only thing I read when i read your comments on Halak. His upside is nearly unstoppable #1 goalie.

The risk with Halak is health not ability.

Halak did spend half the year in the AHL this year with no one making a move on him. Let's not act like he's in big demand.

[dieHARDflameZ]

If nothing more, at least Smith absolutely owns the Edmonton Oilers over the course of his career with a 15-3-1 record.

[PeteMoss]

Really the only goalie who's had stats like Smith at 34 who fell off a cliff at 35 was Brian Boucher who was wildly inconsistent before that age as well.

Ryan Miller, Dwayne Roloson, Tim Thomas, Sean Burke, Tomas Vokoun, Patrick Roy, Miika Kiprusoff, Nikolai Khabibulin, Jose Theodore, JS Giguere were all basically the same goalie at 35 as they were at 34. Besides Kiprusoff most were the same at 36 as well.

Hasek declined but he went from an uber superstar to above average goalie.

[timbit]

Just my thoughts, but how were the Flames different from the Preds with the exception of goaltending?

Flames gave up little for a great return .

Exactly what they needed for the next 2 years.

Bravo Brad!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

This is simply an absurd post. Halak stole consecutive playoff series from the President's Trophy winning team Capitals and then the defending champion Penguins. He nearly knocked off Holtby and the Caps and in 2015, ultimately losing a nailbiter to an amazing unforgettable goal by Kuznetsov. He was the only reason Team Europe was in the final at the world cup, and nearly beat Canada singlehandedly if not for the fact 5hat Canada was a superteam of epic proportions and Europe was Halak, Kopitar, Hossa, and a bunch of nobodies.. All that is on top of a perennially higher SV% than Smith.

Your size bias is the only thing I read when i read your comments on Halak. His upside is nearly unstoppable #1 goalie.

The risk with Halak is health not ability.

Every adequate/passable goalie has moments of greatness. I'm sure an impassioned Niemi fan might quote me his greatest moments as well and I would would remain as unconvinced as I do after your impressive Halak defense.

Agree to disagree on this one. I find people do evaluate goalies quite differently. As you note in general I favour bigger goalies who cover more of the net. Other fans favour more athletic goalies that make the highlight reel snag. I tend to like the calmer, big guys who cover the majority of the net and thus barely have to move over the smaller, flashier, athletic guy who's diving this way and that. Guys who are both big and athletic like Smith and Gillies are right up my alley. I'll likely never convince you that my size bias is justified and you'll likely never convince me that Halak is an above average NHL starter. We just have differing views on goalies that will never be reconciled. I think both of points of view are defensible and hold some merit.

[CSharp]

Dammit! I was hoping Chad Johnson will backup the Flames. That sucks. Seems like a frickin revolving door for goalies with the Flames.

[timbit]

Too many posters not willing to admit how good the Flames will be with a game changing Goalie.

[monkeyman]

I hated this when i first read it, but I think i'm ok with it now. Smith could be the perfect guy to mentor one of our young guys over the next couple of years. I like that Smith had the benefit of working with Sean Burke who was quite highly regarded as a goalie coach if i'm not mistaken.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Some angry people due to this trade. I really don't get it.

What other options were there? Let's look at this logically.

I was on the hope that Treliving would obtain 2 out of the up-and-coming goalies. I am guessing that the prices were on the high side, even through Vegas. Calgary would probably be able to obtain one, but is that what people really expect? After 2 straight season of inconsistent goaltending, I don't think Treliving would have rolled the dice that one of these backups was indeed ready to handle the full workload and pressure of being a starter. Getting two would have limited the risk, but again, the acquisition price on one was probably on the high side.

So Treliving went out and got the best available bona fide backup. Say what you will about Smith, but he is consistent, and he hates to lose. Treliving invested in Elliott last off-season, and Elliott had such an inconsistent season (and downright atrocious in the playoffs). I did not expect Treliving to reinvest into Elliott again this off-season with that 3rd rounder. What did we find out last season about Elliott? That he can be elite at times, but he is not the answer for this team.

Smith is a really good stop-gap I think. He also moves the puck well, which will definitely help our defencemen out. I must say, I don't like his flopping, but I do like how angry he is in net sometimes and will not hesitate to hack a guy that comes to close. With Engelland more than likely departing the team this off-season, that can help a bit. Smith's numbers are good - very good considering the Coyotes are terrible defensively. Smith getting those numbers on the high-danger chances is something - I believe they include the 2nd, 3rd (and in the Coyotes) 8th and 9th chances too. He will get a lot more support from the Calgary D, and I do think his numbers will improve somewhat.

However, I also don't expect a top 10 goalie. I expect a consistently decent goalie that won't lose many games for the Flames when the Flames should have won. I don't think he will steal too many games either, but that's ok - the Flames are a good, young, solid team that should win much more often than lose, and you just need a goalie that is consistent enough to support that. Flames haven't had that in some time now. Ramo was the closest thing to that in the last 3 seasons, but even he had periods where he just didn't bring it. Smith is consistent.

I like the move. Sucks that the Flames will lose a 2nd rounder - but that's the price you pay sometimes, and it is a bargain. Gives the Flames' goalie prospects another close look at a different NHL starter who has has a lot of success in this league. Gillies is such a sponge, so hopefully he absorbs some of the good stuff Smith does.

Losing Hickey absolutely sucks, but as others have mentioned, when he returned to school he was essentially as good as gone. Flames wanted to sign Hickey and Treliving even said "expect news soon", and then suddenly you hear that Hickey is going back to college, and there was no further information from the Flames' side. That was concerning, and I guess that concern was probably justified. A signed Hickey is an over-payment (IMO) for Smith, but an unsigned Hickey is negligible value here. Flames would more than likely have lost him for absolutely nothing. Flames had no leverage, and the best that they could hope for was a very late round pick from some team that felt they could sign him. Treliving did well here by getting at least some value.

Now, what is left?

Well, rumor has it that Johnson will return after July 1st. I am 100% good with that. He has been the Flames' best backup in like 20 years. I don't think he is a starter, but he is an absolutely great backup. If he isn't returning, the Flames could still grab one of those young heralded goalies many people want - a Grubauer, Raanta, Pickard, etc.,. If the Flames don't acquire another goalie from now until the season starts, then they must feel one of Rittich or Gillies is ready for backup duties, and that's not bad either, especially when there are two shots at the can on that. Flames can rotate them up and down to get them playing time in the AHL/NHL.

I am ok with this trade. The 2nd rounder is pretty high, but is it all things considering? That retention can be very helpful, and in the grand scheme of things a 2nd round pick is something that should be sacrificed yearly to the Hockey Gods for helping your team not lose games they should have won (ahem, like games 2, 3 and 4 in the playoffs last year).

Unspectacular, but Treliving didn't give up a whole lot, and managed to find consistent goaltending in the 4 millions who has a track record of carrying a team and having a heavy workload. I think consistency is something we can appreciate for this upcoming season. I miss Kipprusoff and his elite consistency, but I will take what Smith brings any day of the week for the next 2 seasons.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by timbit

Just my thoughts, but how were the Flames different from the Preds with the exception of goaltending?

Flames gave up little for a great return .

Exactly what they needed for the next 2 years.

Bravo Brad!

That's the same comment that was said about Hiller, then for Elliot. We'll see in two years if 3x's a charm!

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Dammit! I was hoping Chad Johnson will backup the Flames. That sucks. Seems like a frickin revolving door for goalies with the Flames.

He still might.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I disagree.

League average goaltending last year was .913%.

Here is the list of goalies aged 35+ that played 45+ games and had a save percentage of .913% or greater since 05/06:

1.Thomas
2.Loungo
3.Kiprusoff
4.Brodeur
5.Vokoun
6.Theodore
7.Miller
8.Hedberg
9.Roloson
10.Hasek

The 35+ goalies to play 55+ games and sport last years's league average save percentage:
1.Thomas
2.Luongo
3.Brodeur
4.Kiprusoff
5.Roloson
6.Hasek

Only six goalies have managed that feat in 12 seasons.

It seems like a very big risk to me. I think this move was a bad bet by Treliving if he was looking for a goalie that can carry a starter's workload and give league average netminding.
.
.

You've quoted the number of 35+ goalies that managed a league average save percentage. But you provided no context... how many 35+ goalies didn't manage a league average save percentage? Did 35+ goalies do worse overall than younger goalies in this regard?

Without context, your attempted point is meaningless.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by timbit

Just my thoughts, but how were the Flames different from the Preds with the exception of goaltending?

Flames gave up little for a great return .

Exactly what they needed for the next 2 years.

Bravo Brad!

I agree the Flames gave up little, but "great" return?

While there were other goaltenders available which presumably cost a lot more, getting one for next to nothing was good. Personally I don't think Smith will be great, but you can't force someone to deal a better goaltender to you.

As a side note, I'm a fan of Treliving as he has shown he's intelligent, but I'm kinda weary of bringing in guys who you're only familiar with or concepts like "hometown boys". Nobody plays harder for you because they're from around town (ie: Hamilton or Brouwer). Just get the best players available and take the time to scout outside of your circle of familiarity.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by CSharp

That's the same comment that was said about Hiller, then for Elliot. We'll see in two years if 3x's a charm!

Smith , for a lot longer period of time , is a much better bet!