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Old 06-06-2017, 11:35 AM   #1
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Default 84-85 Oilers named Greatest Team of All Time

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/1984-8...003329381.html

While a great team, there were still better. This is why internet polls are a terrible idea.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:37 AM   #2
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But...they didn't have McDavid...this doesn't compute.
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:37 AM   #3
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Old 06-06-2017, 11:52 AM   #4
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16-17 oilers named second greatest.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:08 PM   #5
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16-17 oilers named second greatest.
Actually it's the 91-92 Penguins
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:14 PM   #6
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So I guess slap that on the City of Edmonton sign, right under "City of Champions".
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:17 PM   #7
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I'm not sure how the 2009-10 Blackhawks and 88-89 Flames didn't make the top 10.

Like when Patterson and McDonald are your #9 and #10 forwards, that's a deep line-up.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I'm not sure how the 2009-10 Blackhawks and 88-89 Flames didn't make the top 10.

Like when Patterson and McDonald are your #9 and #10 forwards, that's a deep line-up.
How? It's an internet poll, there's no real rhyme or reason, just blind team loyalty in the votes.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:21 PM   #9
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How? It's an internet poll, there's no real rhyme or reason, just blind team loyalty in the votes.
I didn't know it was a poll. That's good to know.

Just like John Scott was an all-star
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:25 PM   #10
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What else can you do when your standing in line to use the can at Rogers Place than vote on a crappy poll??
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:25 PM   #11
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This blogger has it:

1. MTL 76-77
2. EDM 83-84
3. CGY 88-89
4. MTL 77-78
5. NYI 81-82

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.co...s-of-all-time/

Some might think we are homers if we agree CGY is rated so highly, but think of all the players on that team that scored more than 50 goals at some point in their careers.

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The Flames as a team finished 2nd in the NHL in goals for (4.43), 2nd in goals against (2.83), 2nd in PP% (24.9%), 1st in PK% (82.9%), 1st in even strength for/against (1.74), and had an insane home record of 32-4-4, the best home record of any Stanley Cup Champion of the last 30 years. Yea, this team was that good.
Hockey News put CGY at # 14:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...calgary-flames
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:29 PM   #12
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They started it at 50 teams and then went down to 20 before reducing it to a top 10.

'89 Flames made the first cut and were part of the "20 best teams of all-time."
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:31 PM   #13
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The Flames beating the Oilers the following playoffs is that much sweeter then.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman View Post
This blogger has it:

1. MTL 76-77
2. EDM 83-84
3. CGY 88-89
4. MTL 77-78
5. NYI 81-82

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.co...s-of-all-time/

Some might think we are homers if we agree CGY is rated so highly, but think of all the players on that team that scored more than 50 goals at some point in their careers.



Hockey News put CGY at # 14:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...calgary-flames
What hurts the Flames IMO is that team not being 1 of many cups around the same years. MTL, EDM, NYI all had at least 4 cups around those seasons above. The Flames only getting the one cup still puts a damper on 89 for me. They were good enough to win more.
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:44 PM   #15
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The Flames only getting the one cup still puts a damper on 89 for me. They were good enough to win more.
To win more, you have to try again, and to try again, you have to be there. The '89 Flames began to be dismantled the moment they won the Cup. Loob, Ramage, and McDonald never played for the team again. Mullen, McCrimmon, Peplinski, Hrdina, and Murzyn were all gone by the midpoint of the 1990-91 season. Almost none of the players who replaced them were of the same quality.

The fact that a substantially different Flames team did not win the Cup in 1990 or 1991 should not take anything away from the 1989 team.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:32 PM   #16
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To win more, you have to try again, and to try again, you have to be there. The '89 Flames began to be dismantled the moment they won the Cup. Loob, Ramage, and McDonald never played for the team again. Mullen, McCrimmon, Peplinski, Hrdina, and Murzyn were all gone by the midpoint of the 1990-91 season. Almost none of the players who replaced them were of the same quality.

The fact that a substantially different Flames team did not win the Cup in 1990 or 1991 should not take anything away from the 1989 team.
Not to mention, here's what 80-90 looked like:

Cup Finals
1980: Islanders over Flyers
1981: Islanders over North Stars
1982: Islanders over Canucks
1983: Islanders over Oilers
1984: Oilers over Islanders
1985: Oilers over Flyers
1986: Canadiens over Flames
1987: Oilers over Flyers
1988: Oilers over Bruins
1989: Flames over Canadiens
1990: Oilers over Bruins

Looking at Finals appearances between 1980-1990, you can clearly see that the league was dominated by only a handful of teams:

Oilers x6
Isles x5

Flyers x3
Bruins x2
Habs x2
Flames x2

Canucks x1
N. Stars x1

In fact, just because I'm extra bored, here's a chart I did up to demonstrate that not only were the Finals between 80-90 dominated by 6-8 teams, but the playoffs in general were too.

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Old 06-06-2017, 02:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Random View Post
To win more, you have to try again, and to try again, you have to be there. The '89 Flames began to be dismantled the moment they won the Cup. Loob, Ramage, and McDonald never played for the team again. Mullen, McCrimmon, Peplinski, Hrdina, and Murzyn were all gone by the midpoint of the 1990-91 season. Almost none of the players who replaced them were of the same quality.

The fact that a substantially different Flames team did not win the Cup in 1990 or 1991 should not take anything away from the 1989 team.
I think it's just the optics of having a team that was part of a dynasty. It shouldn't take away from the Flames dominant season, but asking people 20+ years after, they remember Cups more than anything.

I actually don't think picking the 84-85 Oilers should be controversial. It was a very good team and had the best player of all time in his prime.
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Old 06-06-2017, 03:14 PM   #18
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I agree with those who rated the '76-77 Canadiens over the '84-85 Oilers. The Habs that year were utterly dominant from the beginning of the season to the end of the finals, and no other team even came close.

Iain Fyffe has analysed the regular-season records of every NHL team, taking into account the degree of parity in each season, to compile a list of the most dominant NHL teams of all time. He ranked teams by WPZS – winning percentage z-score.

The top team on his list (which was made in 2002) is the '95-96 Red Wings, with a winning percentage 2.58 standard deviations above that year's average. Since that team did not win the Stanley Cup, it's easy to take it off the list of all-time greats. The #2 team on the list is the '88-89 Flames, with a WPZS of +2.31; followed by the '88-89 Habs at 2.19, another Stanley Cup loser. The '76-77 Canadiens, #4 with +2.18, are the second highest rated Cup winner. The '84-85 Oilers are tied for 42nd on the list at +1.53.

It's true, the Oilers that year had the greatest player in the history of the game, and he was in his prime. But they also had some of the worst players in the league filling out the bottom of the roster, something that was not true of the Habs' dynasty of the 1970s (or the '89 Flames). This does much to explain why they did not have the kind of all-year-long dominance that the Habs used to have.

If we disqualify the Flames as a one-shot wonder, the '76-77 Canadiens easily take the crown.
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Old 06-06-2017, 03:48 PM   #19
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91-92 Penguins were down 3-1 to the Capitals in Round 1. Capitals led 4-2 going into the 3rd in Game 6. Could have been a disaster.
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Old 06-06-2017, 04:15 PM   #20
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I'm not sure how the 2009-10 Blackhawks and 88-89 Flames didn't make the top 10.

Like when Patterson and McDonald are your #9 and #10 forwards, that's a deep line-up.
The 1988-89 Flames were obviously a great team (most any Stanley Cup Champion is) but of course an old Lanny McDonald and Colin Patterson were 9 and 10 forwards. The real story is the abundance of youth on that team as the following players were 25 years old or younger at the time: Nieuwendyk, MacInnis, Suter, Gilmour, Roberts, Fleury, and Vernon. That is an exceptional group of young talent - maybe not the same elite level of talent as the Oilers had but likely more depth, especially on defense.
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