No chance, to many truck owners in this city to support an NBA team.
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MYK - Supports Arizona to democtratically pass laws for the state of Arizona
Rudy was the only hope in 08
2011 Election: Cons 40% - Nanos 38% Ekos 34%
No. If it didn't work in Vancouver, how in the heck would it work here? We are a little too red-necky to support an NBA franchise, plus what wanna-be-gangster NBA player would ever want to play here? We would be the Oilers of the NBA as far as getting free agents.
EXACTLY.
Sincerely,
The Utah Jazz.
I'm only half-kidding here...Calgary would be a bad choice for the NBA, but not because "wanna-be-gangsters" wouldn't want to play there.
A new arena with a better luxury box situation would make it at least a plausible success. How many of the oil and gas head offices in Calgary have texan business associates that they would love to impress with a box suite to a NBA game? Probably a large enough number to fill every suite in the new building. On the surface, I'd say the demographics just aren't in the stands for putting a franchise in Calgary; Toronto has success because they have an extra 2 million people, and because they have a very European population, which suits the changing identity of basketball. We just don't have those demographics. But the thing that makes me wonder is the often mentioned but never proven statistic that there's something like 80,000 Americans living in Calgary. I'll say right now, I don't believe that statistic, but if it were true, it would represent a significant, silent population in Calgary that could be much more receptive to locating a basketball team here. It's not as if all Americans like basketball, but certainly a greater proportion of them do than the average born-and-raised Calgarian.
Anyway, it's not going to happen; there are a lot of much better untapped markets. But I have no doubt that a Calgary franchise would be at worst around the attendence of Memphis (worst in the league at 12,000 per game), and have the corporate arrangements to make those sorts of numbers enough to support the team.
Toronto is well known to not be a destination that US basketball players want to go. And if Toronto is thought of like that, Calgary would be a free agent wasteland.
The only way it works financially is if they use the Flames to leverage the team giving preference to season ticket holders who have tickets for both teams. That is a fairly common practice south of the border leveraging one team to support another.
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MYK - Supports Arizona to democtratically pass laws for the state of Arizona
Rudy was the only hope in 08
2011 Election: Cons 40% - Nanos 38% Ekos 34%
Calgarians wouldn't support professional baseball teams, professional soccer teams, and a professional basketball team in the past (you forgot that one, didn't you? Most people did). What would make the NBA any more acceptable? Snowball has a better chance in Hell. Tiger has a better chance of remaining true to Elin. Oilers have a better chance of winning the cup...in our lifetime. If any pro basketball made it in Calgary, it would have to have a Fox, Bowen, and Miller in the starting lineup ...NO, not talking about Rick, Bruce, Reggie...talking about Megan Fox, Julie Bowen, Marisa Miller
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"...but I'm feeling MUCH better now." -John Astin, Night Court
Calgary supported the Cannons for 17 years. The 88s had the league fold around them, and the Drillers were already mentioned. The Boomers were attended resonably well if memory serves, while the PDL was what it was: very low calibre soccer.
That's not to say the NBA would work, because it wouldn't. But the apparent lack of support for other sports at other levels is nothing more than a strawman.
MLS would be a dream for me. We're pretty diverse and tickets aren't all that expensive. I think we'd be able to pull it off for a while at least.... One can dream
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I went to three Grizzly games while they were in Vancouver (free tickets).
Here are some reasons why the franchise did not work in Vancouver:
- It was hard to really become a fan of the team as they were blocked from being able to draft any good players.
- The GM (Stu Jackson) came off as being snobby acting like he knew infinitely more than anyone in Vancouver about basketball and the NBA etc. Basically he acted like we were uneducated children never exposed to basketball.
- Players and members of the organization constantly were no shows for interviews on TV and the radio. It was bizarre.
- Players whined about the weather and having to go through customs.
- The team "never" won.
- Stu Jackson acted like he knew what he was doing... but it turns out he was horrible.
- The players/organization mocked fans by saying we didn't know how to support the team during a game. We're too quiet? Don't cheer at the right times? Why is it a good idea to publicly mock your customers?
- There were only a handful of games on TV.
- Bizarre bias by the refs against the Grizzlies favoring the good teams. This wasn't any every game thing, but when it did happen it made the league look like a bush league.
Not only can it not work in Vancouver... it didn't work in Seattle for some reason. Trust me... you don't want this league near Calgary.
Resolute, okay, I will take a kick at the can over the 'strawman' argument. I will grant you that the NBA is a different animal to the others I used as comparison. Highest level of sport, might draw more fans. But citing that Calgary supported the Cannons for 17 years is misleading, they were here for that long, but lost money hand over fist for the last six seasons in Calgary, so you can only say they were supported for 11 years. The 88's folded with the league in 1992, but owners chose not to become part of the NBL that rose from the ashes of that league. And a year later, other owners started the Outlaws and played half a season before that all Canadian league folded. I think it is safe to say that basketball just does not work in Canada. That is my opinion and the only way to find out for sure is get an NBA team. Since that will never happen, we will never know if I was right.
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"...but I'm feeling MUCH better now." -John Astin, Night Court
MLS would be a dream for me. We're pretty diverse and tickets aren't all that expensive. I think we'd be able to pull it off for a while at least.... One can dream
MLS is the only one that Calgary has a snowball's chance in hell of getting, and is the only one that could have a good shot at survival. No winter based major league team could survive against the NHL in Calgary, there simply isn't the mass popularity. The lower end sports buck in the winter is already claimed by the Roughnecks.
There is a gap in the summer, since the CFL is not cost intensive, only plays 9 home games (plus 1-4 preseason and playoff games max) and only appeals to certain demographics.
The average MLS ticket is $22-25 US, and has an average crowd turnout around 16k in 15 home games a season, plus playoffs.
Calgary's demographics have changed a lot since the Boomers. Even in 1981, Calgary averaged 10,500 people per game, in McMahon Stadium, with a city of 590,000. Its double that now with a much more soccer friendly demographic.
Even if the expected attendees didn't double as the population did, even 14,000 average attendees would see this "Calgary FC" in the top 10 in the MLS for attendance.
Add in TV exposure, local perception of "major league", a strong league that operates the franchises, deep pocketed sponsors, Beckham showing up once in a while, and the potential acquisition of our own popular former North American/European/South American star, and you should have a winning formula.
McMahon could be converted for MLS use pretty quick. Its overdue for renovation as it is. Add some luxury boxes, lower the seating capacity to 30,000, toss in some real grass or FIFA approved field turf (with removable football lines) and its all set. Could probably start in 2012 or 2013 if the will was there.
Unless its MLS, Calgary has neither the time, patience or stadia for lower level soccer. The money and the fans are there... they are just picky on the product and its presentation. If Lacrosse can make it and attract 10,000 fans with ~$35 average ticket price in competition with the Flames, Soccer can definitely make it with the Stampeders as their only competition.
NBA would need at least the same amount of fans as MLS (13-20 thousand average attendance) willing to pay $50US average for tickets for 41 games during the Flames' season. Direct competition against a superior brand, plus the niche competition of the NLL.
The NFL has many US options before Toronto or Canada become an option. While Calgary could probably support an NFL team... this hypothetical ownership would have to win over all the angry and jaded CFL fans, and probably several thousand more, while providing a new state of the art stadium housing 60+ thousand people. Not happening. Well, unless the CFL somehow goes under, and even then, it would likely be NFL div 2 playing out of a renovated McMahon.
Not even going to bother saying why MLB isn't viable.
Last edited by Thunderball; 02-01-2010 at 06:47 PM.
I think they have NASCAR in Ontario or was it Vancouver. Maybe it was CART. I don't know...
__________________ “The fact is that censorship always defeats it's own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.”
The NBA charges HUGE fees to located in Canada....The Raptors and Grizzlies had to pay twice the price of any other expansion team because of it being North of the border.
Resolute, okay, I will take a kick at the can over the 'strawman' argument. I will grant you that the NBA is a different animal to the others I used as comparison. Highest level of sport, might draw more fans. But citing that Calgary supported the Cannons for 17 years is misleading, they were here for that long, but lost money hand over fist for the last six seasons in Calgary, so you can only say they were supported for 11 years.
Crap ballpark, poor weather, horrible affiliation and the reorg of AAA baseball resulting in dramatically increased travel costs didn't help. (Memphis on the Pacific Coast, lol). Attendance, until the final couple seasons, remained steady all the way through.
Quote:
The 88's folded with the league in 1992, but owners chose not to become part of the NBL that rose from the ashes of that league. And a year later, other owners started the Outlaws and played half a season before that all Canadian league folded. I think it is safe to say that basketball just does not work in Canada. That is my opinion and the only way to find out for sure is get an NBA team. Since that will never happen, we will never know if I was right.
I also think basketball, especially at that level, won't work well either. But that's the point: Basketball is likely to fail because of the lack of interest in basketball. The level of interest in different sports at different levels has no bearing.
I think calgary should try and pursue other sports events to the city, not basketball, football or baseball.
I think if Calgary built appropriate venues for PGA golf or professional tennis or other sport venues (swimming, diving, etc) that tehy could attract regular 'tour' or 'world cup' stops in the city. COP recently built freestyle skiing venues and will now be a regular stop on the world cup. It would good for the city to say host x-games (winter or summer).
Also, with the city's growing population and demographic shifts, I think Calgary in 10-15 years could probably support an MLS team.
If Calgary got an MLS team I could finally stop feeling dirty for cheering for a Toronto sports team!
In all honesty though I don't think Calgary will get any more pro teams. MLS is literally the only thing left that we could pursue but I doubt that we would be granted an expansion team. Only shot is if one gets moved here and I as of yet there hasn't been a single hint of anyone with the power to do so even hinting at it.
