ISIS militants attack and take over Iraqi northern city of Mosul

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by nik-

They released that caliphate plan a while back, and it's pretty comical. They have, on the high end of estimates, 20000 members. Who knows how many active fighters. They're going to take back Spain ... chunks of Russia ... chunks of China ... Iran ... all of the Balkans, Turkey, Hungary?

Hilarious ... and it must be hilarious to even the believers if the leaders think they actually could do a 1/5th of that.

It looks to me as just a map of past and present Moslem lands.
It would be interesting if they went after Russian territory.

[Tyler]

[Senator Clay Davis]

Sunni militants from the Islamic State group on Thursday seized Iraq's largest dam, placing them in control of enormous power and water resources and access to the river that runs through the heart of Baghdad.

After a week of attempts, the radical Islamist gunmen successfully stormed the Mosul Dam and forced Kurdish forces to withdraw from the area, residents living near the dam told The Associated Press. They spoke anonymously for safety concerns.

The Islamic State group posted a statement online Thursday, confirming that they had taken control of the dam and vowed to continue "the march in all directions," adding that it will not "give up the great Caliphate project." The group added that it has seized a total of 17 cities, towns and targets — including the dam — over the past five days. The statement could not be verified but it was posted on a site frequently used by the group

The seizing of dams and reservoirs gives the militants control over water and electricity that they could use to help build support in the territory they now rule by providing the scarce resources to residents. Or they could sell the resources as a lucrative source of revenue.

The Kurdish peshmerga units had initially managed to stall the militant advances, but their defense has waned in recent weeks.

On Monday, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ordered the Iraqi air force to provide aerial support to the Kurds, in a rare show of cooperation between Baghdad and the Kurdish regional government that underscored the serious nature of this crisis.

Iraq's second largest dam, the Haditha Dam in the western Anbar province, has also been at risk of takeover but remains in the hands of the Iraqi military.

http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-militant...112119380.html

Seems inevitable outside help is going to be needed in this. Question is of course who will provide it?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-militant...112119380.html

Seems inevitable outside help is going to be needed in this. Question is of course who will provide it?

There won't be Western help. This will come down to Middle Eastern nations deciding if they want to fight this or not. This will come down to Iran and Turkey and what's left of Iraq deciding to fight these crazies.

But I doubt that the West is going to get involved militarily, they just don't have the appetite for it.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by jofillips

Turkey has always had a huge army for its country, I'd love to know more about the situation there - I have confidence they'd annihialate ISIS militarily but in the long run it could destabalise Turkey/Europe.
From what i gather the Turkish State is getting more islamic/less secular for the first time in its history...

Your points are generally accurate.

Turkey has mandatory military service (with some caveats) for males, so its army is usually strong.

The party in power has also tended to be more religious in nature, which drives people like my parents (in their late 60s/70s) nuts because they were brought up with strong secular values.

However, I'm quite certain that the party in power does not have the stomach for a cross-border fight based on religious preference. They're trying to advance that agenda internally through the political system, which is their right.

I think that these Middle Eastern countries do indeed need to be left alone to battle / figure this out. It's a shameful situation, but it is within their borders and sometimes you have to let the fire burn until it smothers out. Once they try to cross over borders to subjugate other people, then perhaps the Western countries will need to decide on a course of action.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Your points are generally accurate.

Turkey has mandatory military service (with some caveats) for males, so its army is usually strong.

The party in power has also tended to be more religious in nature, which drives people like my parents (in their late 60s/70s) nuts because they were brought up with strong secular values.

However, I'm quite certain that the party in power does not have the stomach for a cross-border fight based on religious preference. They're trying to advance that agenda internally through the political system, which is their right.

I think that these Middle Eastern countries do indeed need to be left alone to battle / figure this out. It's a shameful situation, but it is within their borders and sometimes you have to let the fire burn until it smothers out. Once they try to cross over borders to subjugate other people, then perhaps the Western countries will need to decide on a course of action.

If we follow that strategy the West has to be prepared to ignore the humanitarian costs of this kind of battle. But we did it pretty easily with Syria once it slid off of the front page.

A battle between ISIS on one side and lets say Iran and other nations on the other side will be a massive bloodbath equivalent to what you would see in the crusades with Civilians being caught and slaughtered in the middle.

TBH the most effective strategy against ISIS would be the use of chemical weapons, and I'm not talking the light stuff or the non lethal stuff, I'm talking the use of persistent advanced nerve agents . ISIS is not equipt properly or trained to fight in a compromised environment, while Iran's special forces troops are trained to fight in that type of environment and usually have the equipment to do it.

don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the use of advanced chemical weapons, personally I hate them far more then I ever hated Nukes which were evil things. But there's a reason why Iran stockpiles them so readily.

The only way that you're going to beat a group like ISIS is to break their resolve, destroy the moral of the guy that flew half way around the world to fight in a campaign and to chop out their leadership tree.

[GP_Matt]

I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but another possibility is a stale mate that splits Iraq into three countries.
At some point the ISIS advance will be stopped by the Kurds to the west and the Iraqi government in the south and east. If an official peace were declared to fix the borders at that point you would be left with a Kurdish majority country, a Sunni majority with their country and a #####e majority in the remainder of Iraq.
The Sunni population would then be left to determine if they want to be ruled by the Islamic Caliphate that ISIS is proposing or if they want to fight ISIS to create a more liberal country.

I have heard that a number of the soldiers fighting for ISIS are fighting for a Sunni homeland and will turn on ISIS once that is achieved to ensure the homeland is not run as an extremist state.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Obama is considering airstrikes, aid

President Obama is considering airstrikes or airdrops of food and medicine to address a humanitarian crisis among as many as 40,000 religious minorities in Iraq who have been dying of heat and thirst on a mountaintop after death threats from the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, administration officials said on Thursday.

The president, in meetings with his national security team at the White House on Thursday morning, has been weighing a series of options ranging from dropping humanitarian supplies on Mount Sinjar to military strikes on the fighters from ISIS now at the base of the mountain, a senior administration official said.

“There could be a humanitarian catastrophe there,” a second administration official said, adding that a decision from Mr. Obama was expected “imminently — this could be a fast-moving train.”



The administration official said that “the president is weighing both passive and active options,” defining passive action as dropping humanitarian supplies. He added, using an alternative name for ISIS, “More active, we could target the ISIL elements that are besieging the base of the mountain.”

The White House declined to say whether Mr. Obama was weighing airstrikes or airdrops in Iraq, but the press secretary, Josh Earnest, said the United States was disturbed by what he described as “cold and calculated” attacks by ISIS on religious minorities in Iraq.

“These actions have exacerbated an already dire crisis, and the situation is nearing a humanitarian catastrophe,” Mr. Earnest told reporters. The campaign of attacks by ISIS, he said, “demonstrates a callous disregard for human rights and is deeply disturbing.”

Asked specifically about military options, Mr. Earnest said, “I’m not in a position to rule things on the table or off the table.” But he reiterated that there would be no American combat troops in Iraq and that any military action would be extremely limited.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/wo...=top-news&_r=0

[nik-]

It's a good thing they waited if they were going to do it anyway

[Burke Salad]

Wouldnt dropping humanitarian aide, speed up ISIS determination to get to that aide themselves?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Your points are generally accurate.

Turkey has mandatory military service (with some caveats) for males, so its army is usually strong.

The party in power has also tended to be more religious in nature, which drives people like my parents (in their late 60s/70s) nuts because they were brought up with strong secular values.

However, I'm quite certain that the party in power does not have the stomach for a cross-border fight based on religious preference. They're trying to advance that agenda internally through the political system, which is their right.

I think that these Middle Eastern countries do indeed need to be left alone to battle / figure this out. It's a shameful situation, but it is within their borders and sometimes you have to let the fire burn until it smothers out. Once they try to cross over borders to subjugate other people, then perhaps the Western countries will need to decide on a course of action.

Involvement by Turkey would be hugely problematic due to its relationship with the Kurds as well as its colonial past in the region.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The only way that you're going to beat a group like ISIS is to break their resolve, destroy the moral of the guy that flew half way around the world to fight in a campaign and to chop out their leadership tree.

Except that this never works. I still don't understand why anyone ever thought it did. This world view has to change.

[FlamesAddiction]

Short of arming some of the neighbouring countries, I don't think there is a lot that we should do. There is just too much blowback any time the West has done that in the past.

I do think that it is only a matter of time until ISIS breaches the Turkish border and once that happens, it very much becomes a NATO problem.

[afc wimbledon]

My guess is a long game where we arm the Kurds to the back teeth and they slowly grind Isis down, remember Isis has no civil infrastructure, they are running on whatever they have found, their big kit, tanks artillery etc will start to become inoperable due to lack of spares or trained mechanics etc, at which point they will be easy pickings for a better equipped force.
For all their success ISIS could cease to exist in a year or two just as easily

[nik-]

Opening: Heavy Mechanic

Are you a motivated self-starter who also wishes death upon Jews, Americans, Western Civilization and the Shia? ISIS may be the work environment for you! We're looking for skilled heavy mechanics to keep the Jihad train rolling.

[terminator]

When you guys say "we" are you referring to Canadians or Americans?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by terminator

When you guys say "we" are you referring to Canadians or Americans?

Im guessing that "we" = the west in general.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Opening: Heavy Mechanic

Are you a motivated self-starter who also wishes death upon Jews, Americans, Western Civilization and the Shia? ISIS may be the work environment for you! We're looking for skilled heavy mechanics to keep the Jihad train rolling.

Post of the day.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by nik-

Opening: Heavy Mechanic

Are you a motivated self-starter who also wishes death upon Jews, Americans, Western Civilization and the Shia? ISIS may be the work environment for you! We're looking for skilled heavy mechanics to keep the Jihad train rolling.

All jokes aside, I do think it's telling that when these middle eastern areas destabilize, the factions in these makeshift countries are more concerned with beating the pulp out of each other than destroying Western civilization / 'merica etc...

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

They just released their expansion plan on Twitter

The Crimea is part of their plan according to that lol.