Internet for an Apartment Building - Advice?

[AltaGuy]

Hey CP - just seeing if I can get some opinions or ideas from here about how to go about providing internet for an apartment building.

Specifically, I'm in student housing, and we have a number of apartment buildings where we provide internet for our residents. Our apartment buildings range in size from about 15 to 30 units, so not overly large.

Because they aren't large, I'm finding the internet issue to be a bit challenging: we currently run several 200mbps lines into each building, and split them with a switch and router, and then have ethernet from the switch to each apartment where there is a wireless router.

Theoretically, what we should be ending up with is around 30 to 50 mbps for each apartment. What we end up with is really bad internet for everyone. We have tried limiting the bandwidth available to each unit, but it just makes everything super unstable. Not limiting the bandwidth means that one serious torrent-er takes up all of the bandwidth for a building and makes it unstable.

Is there actually a way to reliably provide internet for a small apartment building? Am I missing something? At this point, I'm thinking about just giving everyone basic wireless connectivity and then just asking tenants to get their own if they want more. But then we lose the sales-benefit.

Any ideas? I'm definitely not a tech guy, but any ideas would be welcome.

[McG]

I'm guessing that you are on Shaw or another provider; they usually provide consultation on such things because they must have done this a bajillion times before.

They will likely end up recommending extra things that cost more, but at least you will know what it might take to stabilize things.

[Stealth22]

What sort of equipment do you mean, when you say "switches" and "routers"? Is it the consumer grade stuff, or are we talking enterprise level equipment?

If you're not an IT guy, I would highly recommend consulting with Shaw/Telus/whoever your ISP is, or have someone who is a tech guy look into this. And that's not me being rude or condescending, don't get me wrong. But networking can be a balancing act, and if you don't know what you're doing, have the wrong equipment, or just have your equipment set up incorrectly, it can slow everything down to molasses.

Without knowing the exact specifics of your setup, it's difficult to say what the issue is...and networking isn't even my area of expertise either. I know enough to run my home network, and I know enough to be dangerous when it comes to complicated stuff. But I'm a developer, not a networking guy, so if I have an issue, I usually call on a friend or coworker to help.

I'd be happy to help you in any way that I can, but we'd need to have more details first, especially into the kind of equipment you are using.

How were you limiting the bandwidth to each unit? QoS (quality of service...basically prioritizing different types of network traffic) can do wonders to limit bandwidth-eating requests, but if set up incorrectly, can also make the network really unstable.

From what you're saying, it sounds like (in my 'enough to be dangerous' opinion) limiting the bandwidth on each line should help. But again, it depends on the equipment that you have, and it needs to be tuned correctly.

Also, when you say that it ends up being slow for everyone, what sort of speeds do people get? And are these slowdowns strictly on wireless, or on wired connections as well? You're right in that if you just have the whole thing as a 'free for all', one guy torrenting is going to use all of the available bandwidth. It will not simply split equally across all lines, unless your switches are actually limiting the traffic on each port.

[AltaGuy]

Yeah, it's mostly consumer grade stuff. The switch is a cisco switch (not sure which), routers are higher-end consumer routers.

I don't know if we've tried QoS but that sounds promising if it can limit the torrenters. Something always seemed to go really wrong when we would try to aportion bandwidth by apartment, however - tenants would have their internet cut in and out really often. Maybe that's the tuning aspect?

Just frustrating because with 200mbps it seems like we should have adequate bandwidth to provide for four apartments. But the tech guys can't seem to get it figured out.

Thanks for your input!

[oilyfan]

You should try using Ubiquti routers, switches and wireless APs. They are specifically designed for commercial type use with a lot users, and can manage traffic much better than consumer type devices. And they are priced reasonably. With Ubiquiti would not need to run an AP in each apartment, instead install one in the hall to cover three or four. Then manage traffic at the wireless router level. It can also manage different users and passwords.

www.ubiquiti.com

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

You should try using Ubiquti routers, switches and wireless APs. They are specifically designed for commercial type use with a lot users, and can manage traffic much better than consumer type devices. And they are priced reasonably. With Ubiquiti would not need to run an AP in each apartment, instead install one in the hall to cover three or four. Then manage traffic at the wireless router level. It can also manage different users and passwords.

www.ubiquiti.com

+1 for Ubiquiti. I'm personally waiting until my network gear starts to conk out or get too old, so I can replace it with their stuff, lol.

https://www.ubnt.com/unifi/unifi-ap-ac-lr/

However, before you go spending loads on their AP's, I would try a switch or router first. Even before that, get to the root of the problem first. Don't go replacing gear that you may not necessarily have to.

Have you got an IT guy who is familiar with networking? Because Ubiquiti gear, while high quality, is going to be a step above the consumer stuff in terms of the configuration you'll need to do. This is especially true for the routers and switches, they are definitely not Plug and Play.

[AltaGuy]

I really doubt our IT guy could handle it. May have to get a professional service.

[rbochan]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

...I would highly recommend consulting with Shaw/Telus/whoever your ISP is, or have someone who is a tech guy look into this. And that's not me being rude or condescending, don't get me wrong. But networking can be a balancing act, and if you don't know what you're doing, have the wrong equipment, or just have your equipment set up incorrectly, it can slow everything down to molasses...

Good advice there.

Off-the-shelf consumer stuff will _never_ suit the needs of a situation like this.

[Stealth22]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I don't know if we've tried QoS but that sounds promising if it can limit the torrenters. Something always seemed to go really wrong when we would try to aportion bandwidth by apartment, however - tenants would have their internet cut in and out really often. Maybe that's the tuning aspect?

It really depends on the switch/router that's doing it. A consumer level router will not do QoS as well (if at all) as an enterprise level managed switch. But yes, if the QoS rules are not set correctly, you can end up limiting all web browsing traffic.

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I really doubt our IT guy could handle it. May have to get a professional service.

Like I said, I'm happy to give you advice where I can, if you can get exact details of the equipment you have, and a diagram of the wiring.

Originally Posted by rbochan

Good advice there.

Off-the-shelf consumer stuff will _never_ suit the needs of a situation like this.

I find the consumer stuff just too limited in general, lol. They're fine for Joe Averages home, but an IT guy who wants to do things like VLAN's or QoS is better off with higher quality gear.

But yeah, for this kind of thing, the only time I would even consider using consumer level gear is for the routers in each unit, and only because he already has them. I'd much rather have Ubiquiti AP's in the hallways.

[cam_wmh]

PM'd.