I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Overdue? When was it actually due?

When he fired Bob Hartley.

[FlamesNation23]

I agree that Treliving needs to be accountable for the head coach decision, but the people calling for him to be fired need to give your head a shake. When was the last time we had a competent GM that consistently was able to win trades and seemed like he knew what he was doing. I still have flashbacks to the sutter and feaster days when you had no clue how bad we would lose a trade, off the board draft picks, and questionable draft picks. Treliving has made some bad decisions (Gulutzan being one of them thus far), but lets not turn on him so quickly. He has made some excellent trades, draft picks, player signings, and FA acquisitions. He will continue to improve. I'm interested to see what he does if this team stays this bad for another 10 games.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

When he fired Bob Hartley.

Oh, okay then.

[calgaryblood]

Treliving is so overrated it's not even funny. He's made several good moves and several awful ones as well. He gets almost zero criticism.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Besides Gulutzan (at this point), what would people have done differently?

I like some of what Treliving has done that I would have done too. To answer your question though, I think if I were in Treliving's shoes I would probably have made different moves so something like

Giordano-Brodie
Schlemko-Petry
Kulak-Wideman
Jokipakka
Nakladal
(Smid)

Gaudreau-Monahan-Okposo
Cammalleri-Bennett-Hudler
Ferland-Backlund-Tkachuk
Byron-Stajan-Hathaway
Bouma
Jooris
(Kyle Connor 2015 #15OA in AHL)

Elliott
Johnson

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

This is absolute revisionists history. Go back to the signing thread. That deal was adored by everyone here.

Not for everyone....that deal was always awful, just bad asset management by Treliving. Let someone else overpay a 33 year old dman..

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Doughty, Ekman-Larsson, Pietrangelo, Weber, Suter, Keith, Subban, Hedman, McDonagh are all guys I would rather have than Gio. I am not sure how you get away with paying a guy who is probably bottom tier of the top 10 dmen in the league right now (my list would be 10, I have a hardtime seeing how you put him higher than 6 in any event) at the age of 32 top 3 dmen in the league money. If he even slips to top 20 status it is an atrocious contract.

Tampa signed Ohlund at around the same age to be a top 50 guy in the league (which he was at the time of signing). He quickly disappeared and was buyout fodder within 2 years. There is way too much risk signing a guy that age for term. Short of your Joe Sakic's I am not sure of many instances where it worked out.

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The last time the Flames were in the running to get a guy this old signed to a longterm contract was Brad Richards. Of course Richards was 2 years younger than Giordano when those sweepstakes were going on, so you had a little more certainty that there were some guaranteed years of production left in the tank.

Richards was 9th in league scoring in 2004, 11th in league scoring in 2006 then dropped off for a bit (always being in the top 30 though) and then came roaring back in 2007 to finish 7th in league scoring and then 10th in 2011 before he went out for his big contract.

Similar situations, two guys who most people would argue were top 5-8 at their positions at the time they were seeking their big deals, similar in age with Richards being less injury prone. It will be interesting to see how the Giordano situation turns out compared with the Brad Richards one.

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Yes and I guess my point is that the Flames (including playoffs) went 5 games over. 500 over the equivalent of just over a 3rd of a season. They can win without Gio.

The Flames have to truly evaluate what they are trying to build and when they are trying to build it by. I think they are still 2 years away from being truly super elite. I think you start the season with Gio, try to convince him to be part of something special over the next 7 seasons at something like 5.5 and if he says no you trade him.

Being sentimental about such a thing is the worst thing Treliving can do. Even if the cap goes up by 3-4 percent a year paying Gio 8-10 percent of cap value (assuming something north of 7 a year) would be crippling in the backend of a contract.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Besides Gulutzan, people are mentioning the losses of depth players as reasons to fire Treliving?

Depth players matter too

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

I agree that Treliving needs to be accountable for the head coach decision, but the people calling for him to be fired need to give your head a shake. When was the last time we had a competent GM that consistently was able to win trades and seemed like he knew what he was doing. I still have flashbacks to the sutter and feaster days when you had no clue how bad we would lose a trade, off the board draft picks, and questionable draft picks. Treliving has made some bad decisions (Gulutzan being one of them thus far), but lets not turn on him so quickly. He has made some excellent trades, draft picks, player signings, and FA acquisitions. He will continue to improve. I'm interested to see what he does if this team stays this bad for another 10 games.

He can make all the so called awesome and "wizard" trades and deals he wants, but getting a coach that can get them all to play well together is equally, if not more important. Gulutzan is a dud, and Treliving should take the flack for it.

[Stay Golden]

Treliving fired Hartley out of the blue. That came from out of nowhere. There wasn't any rumours Hartley was in the hotseat after the season ended. That firing shocked many fans in Calgary.
It was obvious Treliving wanted his own hire.
And he made it Gulutzan.
The vast majority of fans didn't have clue who the hell Gulutzan even was until they started searching this deer in a headlight Idiot.
Myself included had zero idea who this loser was.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Finally, this thread is overdue.

Uh.... this was tried at the end of last season and I got murdered for it.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...reliving+fired

Granted, the thread title should have been different. It was a mistake to title it that, I admit it. It should have been akin to "Where is the accountability for a GM?". I also think that post #96 in that thread should have been the poll question, as the focus for the teams success or failure has to be on Treliving this year.

Firing your coach 1 year after having won the Jack Adams, and remember, the coach was apparently fired for such reasons as:

"taking the team as far as he could"
"losing the room"
"poor player utilization"
"special teams"
"advanced stats"

But also remember that the coach was replaced after key, core players like:

Gaudreau
Hamilton
Backlund
Brodie

all had career years. Monahan also had a very good year. This must bring scrutiny to a GM. Outside of Backlund all of the career year guys have not been very good this year, and Giordano and Monahan have also been poor. Perhaps Hartley had a better sense of the room than people thought? At least the highest paid players performed.

Can someone explain to me how a GM can be so successful against a deadline like a trade deadline, draft, start of free agency, yet be so incapable of saving a season before the end of November?

it's only 6 games in, I get it, but i'd have more confidence that we'll find our way out if our GM had made moves last year instead of letting the season be lost and pinning it to a coach.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by jeffman

Not that I disagree but

He doesn't have two of the three. But he has a cup.

[underGRADFlame]

[Alpine Fisher]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Uh.... this was tried at the end of last season and I got murdered for it.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...reliving+fired

Granted, the thread title should have been different. It was a mistake to title it that, I admit it. It should have been akin to "Where is the accountability for a GM?". I also think that post #96 in that thread should have been the poll question, as the focus for the teams success or failure has to be on Treliving this year.

Firing your coach 1 year after having won the Jack Adams, and remember, the coach was apparently fired for such reasons as:

"taking the team as far as he could"
"losing the room"
"poor player utilization"
"special teams"
"advanced stats"

But also remember that the coach was replaced after key, core players like:

Gaudreau
Hamilton
Backlund
Brodie

all had career years. Monahan also had a very good year. This must bring scrutiny to a GM. Outside of Backlund all of the career year guys have not been very good this year, and Giordano and Monahan have also been poor. Perhaps Hartley had a better sense of the room than people thought? At least the highest paid players performed.

Can someone explain to me how a GM can be so successful against a deadline like a trade deadline, draft, start of free agency, yet be so incapable of saving a season before the end of November?

it's only 6 games in, I get it, but i'd have more confidence that we'll find our way out if our GM had made moves last year instead of letting the season be lost and pinning it to a coach.

Hartley knew how to get the best out of his core players. The reason the flames had a poor start last year was because of the 3 headed goalie monster, courtesy of Treliving

[Strange Brew]

I disagree with the OP statement that Hamilton was low acquisition cost. Not saying Hamilton wasn't worth the gamble, but if you are willing to trade a 1st and 2 2nds there are a lot of players you could acquire.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Alpine Fisher

Hartley knew how to get the best out of his core players. The reason the flames had a poor start last year was because of the 3 headed goalie monster, courtesy of Treliving

And Brodie missed the first 9 games, Hamilton hadn't played any in a Flames jersey yet, Gio was rusty AF. Gio and Hamilton both had fresh new deals too.

[N-E-B]

I think our star players playing like a bunch of brain dead imbeciles has more to do with the losing than Treliving or Gulutzan.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

And Brodie missed the first 9 games, Hamilton hadn't played any in a Flames jersey yet, Gio was rusty AF. Gio and Hamilton both had fresh new deals too.

Look at the core last year and the years they put in?

Career bests for most.

And look that the bumbling, stumbling people who inhabit the same jerseys this year. What the heck happened? (Backlund aside, who has been great)

The GM put his coach in place. The GM picked the wrong guy. Has to be accountability on the GM.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I think our star players playing like a bunch of brain dead imbeciles has more to do with the losing than Treliving or Gulutzan.

Too many of the core players look like turnips out there. If it was 2 or even 3, i'd be with you. But not:

Gaudreau
Monahan
Bennett
Brodie
Giordano
Elliott

That's a coaching issue.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

They lose the next four. You're likely looking at 70 exhibition games to finish the season. I dunno about you, but yeah. It's time for this team to panic. I don't really GAF, as I'll just stop watching. But if a big chunk of the other 19289 fans take the same stance, they better.

As a team at the cap in a gate driven league paying salaries with a weak Canadian dollar in a struggling Alberta economy, having 2-3000 empty seats every night, and STH's losing their shirts on unsellable seats will not bode well for next year.

I contemplated going on my own for seats this year and not splitting, and there was a pretty good selection declined off the waiting list to be had.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Look at the core last year and the years they put in?

Career bests for most.

And look that the bumbling, stumbling people who inhabit the same jerseys this year. What the heck happened? (Backlund aside, who has been great)

The GM put his coach in place. The GM picked the wrong guy. Has to be accountability on the GM.

Oh absolutely, I 100% agree. I've never liked Treliving. Burke needs to take some heat for the hiring process as well, Tree got the job without any competition.