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Old 10-21-2016, 10:39 AM   #61
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He traded so many prospects he was bound to get burned at some point. It isn't a positive that only a few made the Jays look bad, it was an inevitability.
The problem is that trades that make the Jays "look bad" aren't thought of like that in the industry. Fans love to cheer against prospects after their team trades them, but that is the last thing they should be doing. If all your prospects bust after you've shipped them off, it will have an impact on future trades and how other teams view your prospects.

Trading away a Syndergaard sucks from a fan perspective, but from the team's perspective it definitely will help give credibility to your development system to other teams. They will obviously due their due diligence and have their own scouting/analytics to help judge that prospect, but there's still a lot of uncertainty with any prospect and having traded away some prospects that developed into impact big leaguers allows other teams to feel safe knowing you haven't sold them a poor bill of goods.
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:52 AM   #62
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LF Nori Aoki might be a good fit. Again, bats left and has some speed, but most importantly can hit leadoff and set the table for the big boys. Him and Reddick are exactly the type of mid-level FAs this team can afford to sign while still improving the roster.

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Old 10-21-2016, 12:07 PM   #63
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Not much, most of them bust. It's not like the other sports... a first round pick isn't even a good bet to be a career major leaguer. It's one of the reasons you so rarely see a scorched earth rebuild in MLB.
i might have heard this wrong but when Ken Griffey jr. went into the hall of fame this year, he was the first ever 1st overall pick to be elected.

Hockey must have a bunch.
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:26 PM   #64
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i might have heard this wrong but when Ken Griffey jr. went into the hall of fame this year, he was the first ever 1st overall pick to be elected.

Hockey must have a bunch.
Some guys could still make it in.
Notable first overalls:
Harold Baines
Darryl Strawberry
Chipper Jones
A-Rod
Josh Hamilton
David Price
Bryce "The Ass" Harper
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Old 10-21-2016, 12:32 PM   #65
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The problem is that trades that make the Jays "look bad" aren't thought of like that in the industry. Fans love to cheer against prospects after their team trades them, but that is the last thing they should be doing. If all your prospects bust after you've shipped them off, it will have an impact on future trades and how other teams view your prospects.

Trading away a Syndergaard sucks from a fan perspective, but from the team's perspective it definitely will help give credibility to your development system to other teams. They will obviously due their due diligence and have their own scouting/analytics to help judge that prospect, but there's still a lot of uncertainty with any prospect and having traded away some prospects that developed into impact big leaguers allows other teams to feel safe knowing you haven't sold them a poor bill of goods.
The problem with the Syndergaard trade wasn't that he was traded, it was who he was traded for. That Syndergaard package could have fetched any available ace on the market. Instead they went with RA Dickey who was a big name coming off a Cy Young fans would recognize, but because of his limited success prior to that combined with his age, he's not a guy that would be commanding 20M a year over a 7 year term.

There was serious questions with RA Dickey from the day that trade was made by most baseball people not employed by Rogers media. This guy relied on a gimmick pitch and was going to the AL East where the fields are much smaller, the pitcher doesn't bat, and the lineups are perennial powerhouses. It was a bad decisions from day 1.

I don't think Dickey would have ever replicated his CY Young numbers, but I do feel he would have been much more productive had he remained in the National League. I bet he signs in the NL this offseason and has a really good year. He was not the guy Toronto should have pursued though.

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Old 10-21-2016, 12:32 PM   #66
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^^Chipper will definitely get in. ARod obviously depends but based off Bonds not being in I'd say no. The rest could probably go either way.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:07 PM   #67
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Biagini should get stretched out in the off season. He has the pitch mix to be used in that type of role. I actually think he could be really good as a starter. With his Sinker, guys are continually pounding it right into the turf and sometimes the ball takes too long to get to the fielder, with a few mph off that, guys are probably going to put more wood on it and it will roll over to the fielders easier. There were a few times that I thought he had really unfortunate luck early in the season with the amount of infield singles he had against him.

Worst case scenario one of Liranio, Stroman, Estrada, Happ or Sanchez get hurt and he takes the 5th, spot. Best case is he goes back in the bullpen as your long reliever out of the pen and used in higher leverage situations.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:12 PM   #68
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Is Floyd back? He could also easily eat some innings.
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Old 10-21-2016, 04:24 PM   #69
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Biagini should get stretched out in the off season. He has the pitch mix to be used in that type of role. I actually think he could be really good as a starter. With his Sinker, guys are continually pounding it right into the turf and sometimes the ball takes too long to get to the fielder, with a few mph off that, guys are probably going to put more wood on it and it will roll over to the fielders easier. There were a few times that I thought he had really unfortunate luck early in the season with the amount of infield singles he had against him.

Worst case scenario one of Liranio, Stroman, Estrada, Happ or Sanchez get hurt and he takes the 5th, spot. Best case is he goes back in the bullpen as your long reliever out of the pen and used in higher leverage situations.

There is talk of it happening out there among media and fans. Makes sense to me too. The Jays rotation is awesome, but the problem is after those 5 starters there is no depth, and no one really on the farm ready to step up yet. Jays shouldn't have too much trouble signing some depth starting pitching although they probably won't be very good if needed for too many innings. Stretch Biagini out next year and hope he does well, then the next year hopefully he can step into the rotation because in 2018 both Liriano and Estrada slated to be free agents.


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Is Floyd back? He could also easily eat some innings.
He can't easily eat innings though.

24
54
13
31

Those are his innings pitched the last 4 seasons. He's the definition of band aid, and can't be relied upon.

Too bad though, because he was actually pretty good in the 31 innings he did pitch for the Jays this year.
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:34 PM   #70
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You know who would be a good buy low reclamation project as a starting pitcher?

Henderson Alvarez.

If that name sounds familiar, he was part of the massive 11 player deal with the Marlins that brought us Buehrle, Johnson, Reyes and others.

He looked to be developing into an ace after the trade. Had a heck of year in 2014 with Miami where he started 30 games with a 12-7 record and a 2.65 ERA

Was named opening day starter in 2015 but has had trouble with his shoulder for 2 straight years leading to 2 different surgeries.

If he's medically cleared he'd be a solid gamble I would think. Still just 26 years old.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:06 PM   #71
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EE and JB to get qualifying offers, no surprise.

Jays also exercise Grilli's $3 mill option for next year.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:19 PM   #72
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I'm glad Grilli will be back, I just hope they find a better option for an 8th inning hold guy.

It looks like Greg Holland will hit the market and I sure hope the Jays sign him. He's coming off TJS but by next spring he should be ready to go, and if he comes back at even 80% of what he was prior to his injury he'd be a hell of a pick up for the BP. Probably be a bargain too on a shorter term "show me" type contract.

Another guy to look at might be Hochevar, also out of the KC bullpen.

Sure doesn't look like there is much on the market for solid lefty BP options either, after Chapman (who will be way too expensive) I'd say Cecil might be the best optin of the bunch. I'm kind of surprised he wasn't re-signed, but I guess it makes some sense with his struggles early in the season.

Having a strong pen will be huge for the Jays next year, so hopefully Shapiro/Atkins find the right guys right off the hop. With the rotation this team has, if they get the right bullpen to back it up this team is very likely going to push for playoffs again even if with the likely loss of EE, Saunders and Bats on offense.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:22 PM   #73
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I think they've got one more shot next year. That's if EE come see back.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:26 PM   #74
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Also of note, according to Atkins:

- Osuna to stay a reliever
- If Biagini is open to it, they may stretch him out to become a starter
- They've talked extension with Gibbons
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:29 PM   #75
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Also of note, according to Atkins:

- Osuna to stay a reliever
- If Biagini is open to it, they may stretch him out to become a starter
- They've talked extension with Gibbons
2 out of 3 ain't bad.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:34 PM   #76
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Gibbons is coming back for next season, I'd like to see what happens during the first half before extension talks begin. Still not a huge fan of his.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:49 PM   #77
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Gibbons is coming back for next season, I'd like to see what happens during the first half before extension talks begin. Still not a huge fan of his.
I just think he is a "pretty dumb guy". No doubting his baseball experience and player relation skills, but he strikes me as not the brightest bulb...
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:56 PM   #78
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Gibbons for all his dumbness has managed to talk a few GMs into hiring him and keeping him employed at significant $$ value for a great number of years. Wish I was that dumb.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:59 PM   #79
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Gibbons for all his dumbness has managed to talk a few GMs into hiring him and keeping him employed at significant $$ value for a great number of years. Wish I was that dumb.
Perhaps the whole "awww shucks" thing is a ruse.
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:02 PM   #80
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Gibbons for all his dumbness has managed to talk a few GMs into hiring him and keeping him employed at significant $$ value for a great number of years. Wish I was that dumb.

Not to mention back to back ALCS appearances.

He does most things right. You don't achieve that kind of success by accident.
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